Hard time compressing snare !!!

[jeam25]

Hi !

This is a song that im working this days .

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/13/979870/Demo.mp3

I like the drums BUT like you all i want more !
I want a nashville country rock sound on my drums !

On this demo this is what you hear :

1 mic Beta 52 on kick point at the beater and at the hole ( no EQ and no gate )

1 sm 57 on snare on a traditional position ( Waves EQ Q10 highshelf on 4000khz about 10db and room reverb mono )

1 sm 57 on every tom and floor ( gate and room reverb stereo )

2 shure pg 90 for the overheads at 2' to 3' overthe cymbals !! ( highpass at 500hz )

I know i need to do much more but i dont know how to start !

Thanks for nay help !!!

[Naagzh]

Here's two snippets of a song I'm working on. There isn't any bass yet, sorry.

Drum micing was pretty typical. I used a stereo pair of small diaphragm condensers for overheads, SM57s on snare top and bottom, SM57 on rack tom, 421 on Floor Tom, Audix D6 on kick, and two large diaphragm condensers for room mics, set up about 12 feet from the kit, waist height. Processing was pretty normal, too. Gated the kick, snare, and toms pretty tight. I actually cut out quite a bit of high-end from the overheads (those SDCs are BRIGHT!). I'll try something else next time, I guess.

The first clip has the room mic channels muted.

The second clip has room mics in the mix.

The differences are really obvious after the guitar solo.

My point is that room mics really help drums seem, well, more "pro". I'm using (gasp) D-Verb on the snare and toms, and it sounds pretty bad without those room mics adding their real reverb touch.

[Naagzh]

Hi !

This is a song that im working this days .

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/13/979870/Demo.mp3

I like the drums BUT like you all i want more !
I want a nashville country rock sound on my drums !

On this demo this is what you hear :

1 mic Beta 52 on kick point at the beater and at the hole ( no EQ and no gate )

1 sm 57 on snare on a traditional position ( Waves EQ Q10 highshelf on 4000khz about 10db and room reverb mono )

1 sm 57 on every tom and floor ( gate and room reverb stereo )

2 shure pg 90 for the overheads at 2' to 3' overthe cymbals !! ( highpass at 500hz )

I know i need to do much more but i dont know how to start !

Thanks for nay help !!!

But to directly answer your questions, here's what I hear off the bat:

Snare and toms sound a bit boxy, maybe cut broadly around 300 Hz. You could also compress them mildly for a more legato sound. Maybe compress the overheads with a high ratio and a quick attack for some added shimmer and length. Easy on the tom reverb, maybe compress a bit (after the gate) get more sustain (slower attack, fast release). Kick sounds real tight, but maybe a bit too "metal". Perhaps a small cut around 4kHz? A bit of compression (again, a slow-ish attack so as not to destroy the transient) for added oomph.

Also, you might not want to gate the toms that much. Try reducing the "range" so that the gate doesn't quite close all the way (usually 20 dB is in the ballpark), but set the threshold high enough that the snare and kick won't open up the tom channels. The tiniest amount of bleed can really "glue" a kit together (and connect those fills!), but it helps to manage it carefully.

Also, w.r.t. reverb, you might try adjusting the LPF (low-pass filter) slider. By default it's most or all the way to the right, but try moving it left and removing some high end (where, IMHO, DVerb sounds it's most horrible and distracting). By warming up the reverb this way, you could get away with more of it in the mix.

[jeam25]

Hi and thanks !

I just start to make adjustments to the drums and for start to get out the snare box sound i had to remove like 18db at 400hz with waves q10 EQ !

Here is a sample ! Hear just the snare !

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/...snare%20eq.mp3

Im i doing it well ?


Thanks !

[McGas]

I'd suggest always mic the bottom of the snare. Use the top for "thud" and the bottom for"crack". Remember to check phase of the two mics.

[Naagzh]

Hi and thanks !

I just start to make adjustments to the drums and for start to get out the snare box sound i had to remove like 18db at 400hz with waves q10 EQ !

Here is a sample ! Hear just the snare !

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/...snare%20eq.mp3

Im i doing it well ?


Thanks !

Definitely an improvement to my ears! 18 dBs is indeed alot (depending on the size of the Q), but if it sounds good don't worry about how many dBs. Usually I try to EQ as little as possible.

[BradLyons]

There's no life or punch to the snare, IMHO. What pre-amp are you running this into? IMHO, the secret to a great snare track isn't the mic---but the pre you run it through. I use a Presonus ADL600 with an Audix D1 on top, the natural tube compression just makes a fat and meaty sound. If you can't do that on the front-end, you should really look into using something like McDSP's Analog Channel. Compression is a HUGE part of the sound as well, what compression plugin are you using?

[Naagzh]

There's no life or punch to the snare, IMHO. What pre-amp are you running this into? IMHO, the secret to a great snare track isn't the mic---but the pre you run it through. I use a Presonus ADL600 with an Audix D1 on top, the natural tube compression just makes a fat and meaty sound. If you can't do that on the front-end, you should really look into using something like McDSP's Analog Channel. Compression is a HUGE part of the sound as well, what compression plugin are you using?

Agreed on all counts, but the OP is asking about mixing. I seriously doubt re-tracking is an option for him in the near future, and his budget might not permit a piece of kit like the ADL600. Besides, wouldn't you advise against compressing "to tape" for anyone who isn't already familiar with the mixing process? It's so easy to over-compress and have all kinds of hi-hat bleed in your snare track, or wreck the transient, or both. I understand you're a salesman by trade, but it's a bit soon to be playing the "you don't have the right gear" card.

But if it's punch he's after, well, a small EQ boost around 200 Hz might help. Pretty common for a beefy snare tone. And yes, some compression will definitely help to fatten the tone, if that's indeed what the OP's musical vision desires.

By the way, jeam, the need for removing the "boxy" sound on a snare track does not mean you're using the wrong mic or preamp. I've recorded and mixed dozens of snare tracks with at least a dozen preamps, and the vast majority benefit from a cut around 400 Hz. The few engineers I know personally will even carve out some low-mids before the signal gets to the recorder, the practice is so common.

[3JDamon]

It needs more snap, and there's only so much you can get from an EQ. You should really use a transient modifier like Waves Trans-X put a good spike up front. You'll have to adjust reverb as well, but that's what you're looking for I think.

[original_min]

Hi Jeam25.

Nice work.
I think the problem is all a bit more relative at the stage you are at with the mix.

I know you're asking specifically about the drums but I would now look at it from another angle entirely.
To me the instruments don't sound nearly as rich and lush as the kit yet, band and drums aren't blending and enveloping each other mixwise, if you know what I mean?
Why not look at getting the whole blend a bit better from this point before making those decisions about drum eq/ dynamics?
I just think it's hard to make those final tweaky assessments when you're only looking at part of the whole picture.

If looking at the tweaky bits
First thing for me is the bass drum sounds really 'divorced' from the rest of the kit, maybe just relax it up a bit,
it does sound like a metal bass drum, unlike the rest of the kit or band.

Yes, consider relaxing the toms gates and working on letting the overheads do a bit more,
to me the toms or OH are kind of cutting out, but maybe try those changes once you have the rest of the mix established better.

You should be proud though!