Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Post Production > Post - Surround - Video

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-29-2011, 11:22 AM
subwoof subwoof is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saratoga Springs Utah
Posts: 530
Default Theatrical mix on Blu Ray v.s. DMU

Can anyone enlighten me what, if anything, is done to modify a theatrical mix when it goes to Blu Ray? Assuming I had the proper interface, if I play a 5.1 Blu Ray disk back on a proper dub stage, would it sound the same dynamically and balance-wise as a printmaster playing back in 5.1 from the DMU? (assuming I was listening to the Dolby Digital track on the Blu Ray)

I'm curious because I watched Mission impossible 3 on Blu Ray this week on my stage, and it sounded like a TV mix. The explosions, gunshots etc were in some cases lower volume than the dialog, any yet other films such as "Super 8" and "Iron Man 2" sound very dynamic and much more theatrical in my room. I wondered if M.I.3 was purposely "dumbed down" for release on Blu Ray, and if other films are likewise dynamically compromised for release.

Thanks in advance!
__________________
Michael McDonough, M.P.S.E.
Michael McDonough Sound Design


http://www.mcdonoughsound.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-29-2011, 11:52 AM
Brent_Sydney Brent_Sydney is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 442
Default Re: Theatrical mix on Blu Ray v.s. DMU

There are more knowledgable folk around here than myself, so I defer to their experience, but what I've dealt with in the last few years has been disc authoring houses requesting no peaks above -6dbFS.
This is a primitive way for them to get a compressed mix.

Ultimately the idea is that in the home, the noise floor is higher than in a cinema, so the mix should be a bit louder. Overall loudness for a theatrical might be -27 LUFS, for the home, closer to -24.

In practice, if the client has time and money, mix the theatrical PM at 85, then turn your monitors down to say 80, brickwall at -6 and remix from your stems for DVD/BDR. The mix will be louder in a dynamic way, driven by a human mixer.

In practice clients don't have the time/money, so often a limiter is crunched across the PM to bring it within loudness specs. You'll hear the pumping of the BGs on these releases.

The other thing that could be happening is your receiver could be switching on a compression profile like "music light" or "film light" depending on the metadata in the AC3 and although the mix is fine on the disc, your receiver is compressing it on output. Depending on the receiver you may be able to disable that.

Hopefully some of that sheds a bit of light.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-29-2011, 12:49 PM
subwoof subwoof is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saratoga Springs Utah
Posts: 530
Default Re: Theatrical mix on Blu Ray v.s. DMU

Thanks Brent. In my case, I use the Blu Rays internal decoder and output to the 6 RCA connectors on the back. I then send the signal to an Ebtech line level shifter which gives me a balanced XLR out. That signal is then patched to the Alt Surround input of the XMon on my D-Command for monitoring. I also set the internal settings on the Sony Blu Ray player to full dynamic playback levels, not compressed "night time" settings. Like I said, most Blu Rays sound good, but Mission Impossible 3 sounds like the DVD screeners I get, which are very dynamically compressed.

I supposed I need to upgrade my player to play back Dolby TrueHD lossless audio. That should be the closest thing to the digital printmaster with no digital or analog compression in the authoring, right?

__________________
Michael McDonough, M.P.S.E.
Michael McDonough Sound Design


http://www.mcdonoughsound.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-29-2011, 02:34 PM
Brent_Sydney Brent_Sydney is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 442
Default Re: Theatrical mix on Blu Ray v.s. DMU

Yes, the solution is to invariably buy more gear :)
I concur good sir!

FYI - I patch my bluray player via optical/lightpipe into my 192 and bring in the AC3 stream on a stereo aux. I then insert Neyrincks Dolby Digital decoder plugin to open up the AC3 5.1, digitally inside tools, and bypass any analogue output stage from my cheap bluray player. (also works for PS3 btw...)
That way I can set the centre channel/dialogue level appropriately using my dorroughs and guage the mix's compression schema from there.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-30-2011, 01:18 AM
Steven1145 Steven1145 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 192
Default

When I do the blu ray or dvd master (audio), I always keep in mind that home viewers will not (or only in some rare and extreme cases) be able to listen to the mix with the levels and headroom that a cinema provides. So I deliberately choose to reduce the dynamics for those masters. The idea is to do that so that it still sounds good of course...
On an action flick like MI:3 I imagine that the original dynamics are way above what anyone not having a proper screening room could handle.

I wouldn't say it's "dumbed down", only that it is adapted to the majority of viewers for that format. And this coming from someone who just loves the dynamics that cinema reproduction offers!

Sent from my XT910 using Tapatalk
__________________
Steven Ghouti
YELLOW CAB Studios
Paris, France

The studio FB page
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-30-2011, 01:48 PM
subwoof subwoof is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saratoga Springs Utah
Posts: 530
Default Re: Theatrical mix on Blu Ray v.s. DMU

Thanks for that. Yes, "dumbed down" was probably harsh. I just wish that with all of the capabilities of Blu Ray, there was an option for playback of the original theatrical mix for those who want to experience it and who could properly play it back.
__________________
Michael McDonough, M.P.S.E.
Michael McDonough Sound Design


http://www.mcdonoughsound.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-31-2011, 06:30 AM
thierryd thierryd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Brussels
Posts: 503
Default Re: Theatrical mix on Blu Ray v.s. DMU

it's a discussion that has many sides, but I'm with Michael. On Bluray (and even dvd for that matter) I expect to hear the theatrical mix. I see Steven's point, but I think it's the same as mixing music for the lowest pb medium (I exagerate but you see what I mean It's true that many home theater systems have less headroom, but people will often play 6db lower and if their system distorts duel to not enough headroom so be it. They have the option to buy better, or engage dynamic range reduction...

Greetings,

Thierry
__________________
http://www.a-sound.com/
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-03-2012, 01:06 PM
georgia georgia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: NY,NY
Posts: 1,859
Default Re: Theatrical mix on Blu Ray v.s. DMU

the only thing i'd do is raise the over all level a db or 2,and tighten up the dynamic range a tinge. So you can hear the quiet dialogue over the barking dog down the street, or the neighbor listening to the football game upstairs, and you can hear the subtle stuff over the lawnmower.....


cheers
geo
__________________
georgia hilton CAS MPSE MPE

Hilton Media Management

Film Doctors http://www.filmdoctors.com
Me... http://georgiahilton.webs.com/
Stage 32 http://www.stage32.com/profile/6569/georgia-hilton
My Production Company http://www.hiltonmm.com

CREDITS (partial) http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0385255/resume
MEMBER: IATSE LOCAL 700
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-03-2012, 02:29 PM
bad jitter bad jitter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Tellus
Posts: 1,383
Default

So you are raising just a dialog and not the dog?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-03-2012, 05:20 PM
georgia georgia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: NY,NY
Posts: 1,859
Default Re: Theatrical mix on Blu Ray v.s. DMU

just tweaking the mix to make sure everything sounds good at an overall lower listening level assuming some noise in the listening area... typical TV or small non perfect home theater-ish space like the family room with kids etc.... nothing specific just a quick polish, maybe a bit of limiting/compression without it becoming noticeable. Every mix is a little different.



cheers
geo
__________________
georgia hilton CAS MPSE MPE

Hilton Media Management

Film Doctors http://www.filmdoctors.com
Me... http://georgiahilton.webs.com/
Stage 32 http://www.stage32.com/profile/6569/georgia-hilton
My Production Company http://www.hiltonmm.com

CREDITS (partial) http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0385255/resume
MEMBER: IATSE LOCAL 700
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need 5.1 room for theatrical mix NYC ec123 Post - Surround - Video 3 12-01-2012 03:21 PM
remixing theatrical mix for home theater mr.armadillo Post - Surround - Video 8 07-11-2011 10:15 AM
German theatrical specs AchimHamburg Post - Surround - Video 4 03-29-2011 02:21 AM
DVD vs Theatrical Levels StavrosSound Post - Surround - Video 19 12-18-2007 12:05 PM
Mix Distance for Theatrical Release? spigots Post - Surround - Video 4 09-25-2004 10:15 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:53 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com