preamp / converter combo for around $1300

[davidp158]

I've searched for, and read, lots ofprevious posts on preamps and converters for the Digi001, but some posts are a bit old. I'm hoping someone may have found a preamp / converter como that will do the following:

1. an audible improvement over the Digi001 preamps
2. provide better conversion than the Digi001 converters
3. allow me to record with more inputs, via light pipe connection, when recording bands

While I've been hoping the Presonus Digimax would be the solution, I've read in this forum that the converters are the same as in the 001 and the preamps probably won't be as impressive as a dedicated single or dual channel preamp with converters. It does offer some great features (limiter, 8 ins/out via light pipe, extra outputs for monitoring), and I think its priced well.

I'm curious to know of any single or dual channel preamp that has light pipe outs. Two extra inputs and two really good mic pres would help me a lot. Is there a unit or two that might provide better quality than the Digimax, for around the same price?

As always, thanks for all the feedback. This is a great forum.
Dave Patterson
Knobville [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Burton]

This is a nice box, but you'll need to spend more than $1,300. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
http://www.macmidimusic.com/tcelgolchane.html

[Burton]

You could also pick up the ADI-8 for around $1,300...
http://www.macmidimusic.com/rmeadprohip8.html

which offers 8 channels of significantly better a/d conversion than the 001. You'd then have to buy some separate pre-amps, like Grace Design or TL Audio, but you'd have more flexibility to combine a number of different flavored pre's with 8 additional channels of input.

[joshua d]

I'm kind of in the same boat here. Where did you read that the converters were about the same? Not that mag reviews are unbiased, but in the Aug "Recording" I read that the converters sounded better than the MOTUs or the other DIGI stuff. The other unit I'm looking into is the True Audio Precision 8, but it seems a little more expensive.

[Mark Fassett]

I would point out that you should really buy two separate units, a preamp and an A/D.

The reason is, preamp technology changes very little.. but a/d conversion is a fast changing technology. Thus, you'll eventually toss your a/d in favor of a new one, making that function useless in a combo unit.

[BradLyons]

If you need a great converter and a great mic Pre for around $1,300, it is definitely possible but not in the same box. You see, if you get a good mic-pre you're still using the Digi001 converters. I would recommend the following:

(1) Apogee Rosetta 48 2-ch Converter
(1) Grace Designs 101 Mic Pre

The Rosetta will give you an incredible sounding A/D while bypassing the Digi001's altogether (although you will still be using their D/A for monitoring). A great feature is being able to use their UV22 method while tracking to pack as much of a 24-bit signal into an actual 16-bit signal making it sound as close to 24-bit as possible and taking up less disk-space.

This will cost you about $1,700 or so, but absolutely worth it! I have MANY customers both home and professional using this combination with great results.

Hope that helps!

[bassmac]

I have a Digimax and it does sound better than the 001, but how does one know if it's the pre's or converter's, after all, you can't use the 001's pre's and bypass it's converters now can you?

I've seen reports that the Precision 8 sounds better than the Digimax - which it better since it cost more.

There are several boxes like the dbx 376 that will do what you want, and maybe even sound better than the 001, but you'll probably notice a bigger improvement from just getting a good mic.

Keep in mind, whenever you buy a combo unit like a 376, or even a Avalon 737 (Yes, I've had them both) you are dividing up the money between the components, so the 376 is not a $400 pre amp, but rather a $100 pre amp, $100 comp, $100 eq, and a $100 converter. The same is true with the 737, just at a higher level.

Having already been down this road myself, I'd take the above advice and get separate boxes. I tried to buy everything at once and ended up getting middle of the road everything. I've now replaced almost everything with higher quality boxes - and it does make a difference. You really do get what you pay for.

A high quality analog front end and good A/D is very important in getting good digital recordings. If you're serious about ultimately getting the best quality you can, *knowing what I know now*, I'd recommend getting one box at a time as you can afford them, and get pro level gear. This may mean thousands instead hundreds, but in the long run you won't lose hundreds by selling used gear like I did.

Happy Shopping [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[davidp158]

Thanks, everyone, for the replies. Yes, I agree that a separate preamp and converter makes more sense than an all-in-one box. I didn't make it clear in my original post that I was open to that, by using the word "combo".

A correction: I stated that I had read, somewhere in this forum, that the Digimax converters were the same as the Digi001. I meant to say I had read that they were the same chip set as the Alesis AI3. I can't confirm this, but a few people have mentioned this before.

A clarification: To bypass the converters in the Digi001, I assume I have to use an external converter and connect it via S/PDIF, correct? Is there a converter spec that I need to look out for when chosing a converter that will work here?

thanks again for all the advice; this forum rocks!
Dave Patterson
Knobville

[Frank S]

In that price range I'd suggest:

Grace designs 101 (about $500) - ONE channel mic pre - as mentioned above.

Lucid AD9624 ($750) - 2 channel AD converter that compares favorably if not superiorly (to some) with the Apogee Rosetta 48K. Plus you are 96K 'ready' when your software supports it (not PTLE).

Adds up about right, give or take a few bucks, and the sound quality will be a noticeable difference to the stock pre/converters. Plus you can add the Lucid DA version (a bit cheaper than the AD) for monitoring down the road when you need it.

[lwilliam]

I love my ADI-8Pro (RME or Nuendo) converters with the 001 - a huge difference in clarity and depth. ADAT output plus S/PDIF plus wordclock.

To bypass the 001 converters, either s/pdif OR lightpipe input would be required. You would then set the 001 to clock to s/pdif or optical. This is a simple setting in PTLE. Then you'd be using the external converter's clock; most likely it would provide lower jitter.

You can get the Nuendo/RME for about $1200 from some places such as West LA Music (the Nuendo box anyways). I believe that bayviewproaudio is also around that price. Tell either of 'em I sent ya.

As several people have mentioned, the Grace Designs 101 has been creating a buzz, also. Since I haven't heard it myself, I can't vouch for it, but a lot of pros on other boards think it's about the best for the $$$. I haven't priced it myself, but I believe retail is around $700.

I personally couldn't hear any difference between the Rosetta and the RME. I had them both (Rosetta on loan) and kept the RME. However, with the Rosetta I was still using the 001 D/A vs the RME's D/A when testing it, so it wasn't a PURE apple-to-apples comparison. I would have to have the PSX-100 to do a true apples-to-apples thingy and that's well over $2000.

I have heard that the Digimax has BETTER-sounding converters than the 001 - not the SAME. I don't recall reading any negative (or even less than superlative) reviews on it. No personal experience with it, tho'.

Although the converter chip is important in the a/d/a design, I've recently become more aware that it's not the only thing that makes a converter sound good. There IS the "analog" portion of an a/d conversion, and the quality of the analog portion can make quite a bit of difference, also. If the analog portion has limited bandwidth, poor s/n ratio and inadequate headroom (compared to another brand), it won't sound as good as another converter using the same chip set but very high quality analog components. I can't say whether the a/d chip in the Digimax is the same as the AI-3 or not. I do know that the RME uses an updated (and upgraded) chip by the same manufacturer as what Apogee uses.

The other major factor in the sound quality of converters is the stability of it's clock. This is measured by a term called jitter. There are apparently several ways to measure jitter and until the industry agrees on a standard such as they do on noise level, e.g., "A" weighted or whatever, it's hard to compare jitter specs.

The combination of quality analog circuitry, good converter chips, and a very low-jitter clock are the major factors determining the overall sound quality of a converter system. Improving any of the above will improve the sound - but to what degree each contributes, I'm not sure.