Processing and Mixing OH's

[ixnys]

So how do you guys like to balance your OH's compared to the kick,snare, and toms. Sometimes when I listen to alternative rock bands like Linkin Park or System of a Down...the drums actually seem very low compared to the guitars, but the mix still sounds big and has a lot of energy.

When I'm mixing drums compared to my guitars I always seem to raise my OH's loud but than my high hat feels so damn intrusive. So again...how do you like to process (EQ,Comp,etc.) and blend your OH's into the mix? Thanks.

[Redbeard]

I always start with the O'Heads. Bring them up to about -1 on the PT fader. Add a bit of top end if necessary to bring in the sheen, roll off extreme low end.

Then I start adding in the kick, snare, hat (often never use this mic because it is already in OH's), edited toms, room mics (very low if used at all).

The O'heads are really the basis of the kit; hopefully they are recorded well; not too close so that the hat kills, not too far to not get crack from the snare, and I really hate it when I get 1 OH.

[archtop]

it's all about touch,experience,chops.
when you bring up an overhead, and the hat is intrusive,why is that the gear's fault.
way too many drummers fail to recognize cymbals can easily overpower the rest of the drum kit.
gather the data for yourself tho', but I 'm finding,big kick,snare,and toms(hit 'em sorta hard) with a lighter touch on cymbal's( don't hit 'em so hard) WILL yield a bigger/better drum sound from all the mic's.
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[odysseys]

I start with the principle that the OHs must present the kick in the middle.For this reason i always tell the drummer to hit the kick and watch the meters on the OHs,so they have the same reading,otherwise i move the mics accordingly.
The last precaution is that i tweak the toms' pans to match the stereo image of the OHs.Then i can start recording.

[Wolfgang Eller]

Originally posted by odysseys:
I start with the principle that the OHs must present the kick in the middle.For this reason i always tell the drummer to hit the kick and watch the meters on the OHs,so they have the same reading,otherwise i move the mics accordingly.
The last precaution is that i tweak the toms' pans to match the stereo image of the OHs.Then i can start recording.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For me the snare has to be in the middle.
Therefore I phase align all OH tracks after recording to the top snare mic, otherwise you get a Haas effect to the (normaly) right hand side.

Cheers Wolfgang

[odysseys]

Originally posted by Wolfgang Eller:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by odysseys:
I start with the principle that the OHs must present the kick in the middle.For this reason i always tell the drummer to hit the kick and watch the meters on the OHs,so they have the same reading,otherwise i move the mics accordingly.
The last precaution is that i tweak the toms' pans to match the stereo image of the OHs.Then i can start recording.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For me the snare has to be in the middle.
Therefore I phase align all OH tracks after recording to the top snare mic, otherwise you get a Haas effect to the (normaly) right hand side.

Cheers Wolfgang <hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry,i frankly didn't understand what you meant.
You can't have distinct echo(>30ms) between the OH's image and the direct mics because the distance between them is usually very small.
In addition to this,if someone wishes to have his mics time alligned,he should delay all drum mics according to the OH's position.
Please explain.

[Daniel_Dettwiler]

For me too the snare has to be in the middle. But I prefear to do that with the micplacement of the Overhead mics. The OH Mic which is closer to the snare can be placed a little higher, so that the ways form the snare to both mics are the same. This is anyway often a better sound, because mostly the Hat is close to the snare (so it is a little less on the OH Mic if the drummer plays it loud), then ofthe the rides and crashes on the floortom side are placed a little lower, and the crashes on the snare/Hi Tom sound are placed a little higher.

daniel
www.ideeundklang.com

[Matt Zeiner]

I phase align all OH tracks after recording to the top snare mic, otherwise you get a Haas effect to the (normaly) right hand side.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never thought of doing that, though it has occured to me that the snare and hats will appear in the stereo image to the right of the toms and kick provided that the kit is miced with a view to correct imaging... one trick I have used for for overheads is to use three overhead mics when recording. Here is what I do - hate it if you like, but do try it. I mount three mics on a T-bar - 2 cardioids on the outside and an omni in the middle. With the omni muted in the phones, position the outside mics so that there is no audible cancellation in the kick and snare low - end, while still maintaining a correct image. There seems to always be some trade off there. Then unmute the omni and move the mic forward and backward in the clip until the cancellation in minimal. Now you essentially have two mid - side pairs, side by side. During mixdown, you can image each side imdependantly (the matrix will steer the left to the right and the right to the left, so watcht he toms) by feeding left+omni into one decoder and right+omni into another. (S1 set to mid-side input works marginally well. if you don't have anything else, you'll at least get the idea). By varying the width and panning of each decoder output, you can create some really wacky images that jump out and grab you. More often than not, I'll use just the cardiods as overheads, amd mix just a taste of matrixed overheads in.

[Wolfgang Eller]

Originally posted by odysseys:

[/qb]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry,i frankly didn't understand what you meant.
You can't have distinct echo(>30ms) between the OH's image and the direct mics because the distance between them is usually very small.
In addition to this,if someone wishes to have his mics time alligned,he should delay all drum mics according to the OH's position.
Please explain. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Why should I delay all mics to match the OH´s position?
The main instrument of the drum set is the snare. Therefore I phase alligne all the rest of the drum mics to the snare. The snare has the most attack, most overtones and is normally the loudest instrument in the drum set.
If you look at the signals in the sample resolution you will see that even the closest non snare mic´s (hihat) delay is that big that the initial attack of the snare could be out of phase.
And the more mics you have always open when the snare is played and are not phase alligned (except
the room mics) the more attack and overtones you will loose in the final mix.
And for the Haas effect you don´t need delays of 30 ms or greater to hear it.

Cheers Wolfgang

[odysseys]

Thanks for your reply.
I have 2 questionsoesn't Haas said that a difference of 15-30ms enhances the listener's perception,or am i wrong?
Also,isn't it true that the overheads captures the sound later than every direct drum mic?
So,shouldn't all mics be delayed in relation to them?
Please correct me,even if these sound stupid.