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Old 11-27-2012, 10:28 AM
ilulilu888 ilulilu888 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 304
Default Re: Waves and AAX DSP....

ok....sorry for breaking in but i had enough....Mr. Marsdy is very consistent in his effort to bash HDX and make it irrelevant....he has been doing it in a lot of posts around the DUC , - when someone dares to write something good about HDX he will jump in seconds and write a counter post to explain how wrong is the other guy who just praised HDX.....i guess i he is just trying to defend his Ten year old investment in any given way - including dirty actions here in the DUC , he managed to piss a bunch of people - by his disrespectful replays to their posts , including insults and name calling...i am not trying to do the same , but this one is a real trouble maker that spends way to much time on the DUC and you can tell that by the number of posts - which means that he has too much free time in his hands...not working in the music business

this all Waves AAX DSP - thing is reticules - waves is only one company - there are far better plugins then waves by now....try and see- waves are too expensive - and the upgrade paths are insulting...McDsp are far better and you can get their entire Line of
plugins for much less....and they are writing AAX codes for ALL THEIR PLUGINs...no one in their right minds would rather skip HDX just because Waves wont write the AAX code......that is plain stupid....sorry - i have an HDX system I LOVE IT - my Mixes sounds Better faster then they were before , i can handle heavy Mixs and voice count with out juggling with Voices automation...i haae over 70 AAX DSP Plug ins!!!!!!! and 300 Native Plugins......STOP SAYING STUPID THINGS ABOUT HDX cause you dont know anything about it...grow up Marsdy boy ......and wipe the milk off your lips cause you are acting like a spoiled brat.
Pro Tools 12HD
Avid HD 8x8x8
Avid Omni HD
MacPro 2.4 Xeon 8 core 24Giga
UAD-2 And most of the UAD plugins
All AAX DSP and Native Plugins (all most)
Tons of Hardware...:)
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:06 AM
metalprod metalprod is offline
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 21
Default Re: Waves and AAX DSP....

Hi there,
totally agree with ilulilu88. I also have a full HDX 3/2x 16x16 I/Os system which just works beautifully. Finished some full blown music-production in it and it sounds fantastic.
I used to even do ß-testing for Waves in the '90s and really love their plugs, but not to the extent to sacrifice my "workhorse"-quality. If I have to, I can do without Waves easily.
My guess is that Waves will jump the AAX train at some point, as they want to sell plugins. If I, at some point, will sell my HD6-accel/TDM rig, which I still have sitting in the corner, including my Waves bundles/plugs...., what is this person that's gonna buy it , gonna buy from Waves ???. Just some upgrades and add-ons. What does your ... not any further developed... TDM system need a Waves bundle 10, 11 or 12 upgrade for ?? Why would you even pay for WUP ??
Waves not gonna want to miss their share of the cake ! Everyday they pass on AAX, people gonna buy other plugs which are AAX. And one things for sure , the money I spend on AAX plug-ins of other developers, I'm not gonna spend with Waves.

So, unless AVID goes bancrupt and AAX is gonna be discontinued, Waves will eventually jump the AAX wagon. Until then, I'm totally fine with all the AAX plugs that are out there allready and every plug-in (incl. Waves) that's gonna be added to the "pool" is just gonna make me more happy.

Hey, don't jump at me, it's just my opinion.



ProTools HDX3, 10.3.2, 2x 16x16 i/o, 2.93 Quad Xeon, 10.7.3
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:30 AM
Emcha_audio's Avatar
Emcha_audio Emcha_audio is offline
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montréal, canada
Posts: 6,611
Default Re: Waves and AAX DSP....

Notice what is said by his undisclosed "sources"

If we would optimize the plugins for that processor, we could probably make it better.

That means they are using a plugins that is actually not written for AAX and just converted it to AAX DSP without any optimization at all.

So basically their test is already bogus from the go since they actually didn't put any work at all at trying to optimize it to get a true picture. While on the other hand, other plugins that have been optimized actually show that the cards are much more powerful by the numbers of plugins they can hold, from the old Accel system.

Taking a simple plug-in like the seven-band version of EQ3, as a stereo, multi-channel plug-in; with HD, a single instance requires 15 percent of one DSP, a second 10 percent (thanks to DSP Sharing), and it is possible to have nine instances running on a single DSP. Using HDX, however, the first instance of EQ3 requires five percent, the second two percent, and it’s possible to run 49 instances on a single DSP. Pretty impressive.
That quote is from a soundsonsounds article where they tested the HDX card compared to the Accel card.

So if you could only use 9 eq3v7 on a single accel dsp chips vs 49 on a single HDX chip that means you have;

Accel card: 9 chips times 9 plugs = 81 instances of the eq3v7
HDX card: 18 chips times 49 plugs = 882 instances of eq3v7

I haven't seen a native system that actually gave that count of the eq3v7 plug, not to mention that if you place a second HDX card, you double that amount, 3 HDX card you tripple that amount, on top of what you can use natively.

As an example if your system can run natively 500 eq3v7, and you have 3 hdx card you could theoretically* have a total of 3146 eq3v7 instance running on your system. That's much more powerful than just your cpu running 500 instance isn't it? Now of course results will vary depending on which plugin you are using and if it has been properly optimized for the new chips, but the results are there.

That shows that Waves actually didn't do any real testing and/or work done to see what they actually could get out of the HDX card which show it's much more powerful than the old Accel card. I highly doubt that the company will port 100% of their plugs as aax native as many of them are extremely old, that means that the actual work, although still huge, is lesser than what is being led on by Marsdy. It will be easier for smaller companies to port their entire range, because they have smaller numbers of plugins to work on, but wave could do it if they truly wanted to.

ref: Avid HDX DSP Cards april 2012.

* I say theoretically because at one point you simply wont have enough insert points to use them all

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Old 11-27-2012, 11:41 AM
Dnnspv Dnnspv is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 132
Default Re: Waves and AAX DSP....

I am so tired of this Waves drama. They aint making AAX DSP plugins. Get over it. If you absolutely cannot make music without Waves AAX DSP plugins, or don't make enough money in your studio to consider your Waves software bundle a lost, then become a dancer. Geez
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:43 AM
SHIRK SHIRK is offline
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 206
Default Re: Waves and AAX DSP....

ilulilu888 - I think you might be misunderstanding Marsdy's posts. I don't know the guy at all. Never met him. Never worked with him. But as far as I can tell, his intentions seem good. He's actually the one who started the petition to convince Waves that there is an audience for AAX DSP versions of their plugins. I believe that petition is at least 500 strong by now.

While I was not pleased to read the content of his post at the top of this thread, it does not seem to be malicious, but rather, informative. If it is an official response from Waves...so be it. I agree that there is probably no way in hell they can efficiently and cost effectively port their entire product line over to AAX DSP. But then again, there is so much redundancy in their plugin lineup, I see this as a good time to thin the herd. As a longtime Waves supporter and Diamond TDM bundle owner, I am disappointed. However, I've found plenty of other options that take care of my DSP plugin needs.

Let's play nice now and get these -9172 errors figured out.


MacPro 12core 2.66Gh Westmere
OSX v10.7.5
1x HDX
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:08 PM
audioluche audioluche is offline
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, QC, Canada
Posts: 764
Default Re: Waves and AAX DSP....

This sounds like B.S from Waves.

I think they simply dont want to put the money / time to port all their plugins to AAX DSP.


Just say it's an economic decision. This thing about the SSL channel is B.S.
HDX is more powerfull for all plugins exept the Waves one?

For me, when i'll make the switch to HDX, i will not miss Waves plugins.
The only one who see's a lot of use these days is Q-Clone, and it's not TDM anyway.

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Old 11-27-2012, 12:33 PM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Location: England
Posts: 2,029
Default Re: Waves and AAX DSP....

Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
The way I read this is they didn't seem to put a whole lot of work into the port & compile. If other smaller companies that do plugs can breech this hurdle - why can't Waves?
The way I read it is it takes a LOT of optimising to get good results from HDX. Avid haven't managed it themselves with Revibe for example. After a year still only two instances per chip... Same as TDM...

So Waves' point about optimising plug-ins taking a LOT of resources seems to ring true does it not. How many plug-ins have Sonnox released so far? Two in a whole year. Waves have 300 to do...
Dave Marsden
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:49 PM
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Cliffy_Boy Cliffy_Boy is offline
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Location: Montréal, Québec
Posts: 5,091
Default Re: Waves and AAX DSP....

I think the lack of support from Waves, Soundtoys and various others has had many of us reconsider our workflows - many for the better. i myself have moved on to AAX DSP supporters that IMO have plugins and that do a better job for me and with less options allows me to focus on getting great results from the tools I have.

i, and others, have adopted a freedom of software-hostage solution that has me incorporating hardware inserts that have sounds I only dreamt of before. I replaced plugin reverbs with a Bricasti M7 that blows away any software I ever used - and it's independent of necessary software upgrades when PT moves to a newer version.

i replaced my effects from Soundtoys with Eventide hardware that has better chorus and delays than echoboy which was a staple. As well as effects unavailable in any plugin option.

The final result is that I've gone back to older mixes, replaced software with hardware and have results that finally sound like they were done in a professional studio. And I've stopped checking everyone's websites to see when they are finally porting to AAX DSP.

I'm finally making music again. Now if those damn 9171's would go away...
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:52 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Location: The Sopranos State (NJ)
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Default Re: Waves and AAX DSP....

Originally Posted by Marsdy View Post
The way I read it is it takes a LOT of optimising to get good results from HDX. Avid haven't managed it themselves with Revibe for example. After a year still only two instances per chip... Same as TDM...

So Waves' point about optimising plug-ins taking a LOT of resources seems to ring true does it not. How many plug-ins have Sonnox released so far? Two in a whole year. Waves have 300 to do...
Thing is Waves did absolutely no optimizing of their plug for AAX so that makes their test bogus. All this does is make their software people look really weak. The amount of plugs doesn't enter into it at all if you don't have the software geeks to make it all work. Now if they swallowed their pride and got some outside help then that's another matter.

I agree with Manny on this one. Waves blew it big time.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:24 PM
Raoul23 Raoul23 is offline
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Location: UK
Posts: 3,062
Default Re: Waves and AAX DSP....

At the mo my HD rig suits my need down to the ground and I love the waves plugs I use in my sessions. As I've said before I'm in no rush to upgrade to HDX at the mo I'm sure it's great I would really love waves to go AAX DSP which would probably help me jump ship to AAX earlier than I'm planning. I'm sure if waves put some man hours in they could convert their plugs to AAX I just think they are to busy selling to the home studio native market
Raoul Crane

PT 10.3.10 HD Accel 6, Mac Pro 5.1 12 Core 3.46hz Dual Boot Lion 10.7.5 and Maverick 10.9.5 32GB Ram Magma PE6R4i Chassis
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