Roland D-50 Program change trouble

[Gothboy]

I'm having a bit of trouble getting my Roland D-50 to change a patch during a PT session in 7.3? I tried it and I'm getting a "Card not ready" message in the D-50 display when it hits the program change message because for some reason only the ROM card is showing up in The PT patch list window. The thing is that I'm not using the bank on the card...I'm using the internal bank. All the patches on the card show up in the program change window but not the internal patches and there's no other banks to toggle to. It's switching from internal patch 85 to patch 34 on the card...and I want it to change to patch 84 in the internal bank.

[accession]

The error you're getting is because Pro Tools is being told to select a bank that doesn't exist in your D-50.

Do you know what the MSB (Controller 00) / LSB (Controller 32) details are for the Internal bank? This info should be in the back of the D-50 manual (MIDI Implementation) and for simplicity sake, let's hope its not given in HEX values.

And are you suggesting your patch name list in Pro Tools *only* has the ROM card? That's interesting.

You can make custom patch files (on a Mac) using Cherry Picker, but you'll need to know the relevant MSB/LSB data to get anywhere.

[Gothboy]

Originally Posted by accession

The error you're getting is because Pro Tools is being told to select a bank that doesn't exist in your D-50.

I have the manual right here. It says if I get the "Card not ready" error it's because the card isn't inserted properly. I fixed that.

Originally Posted by accession

Do you know what the MSB (Controller 00) / LSB (Controller 32) details are for the Internal bank? This info should be in the back of the D-50 manual (MIDI Implementation) and for simplicity sake, let's hope its not given in HEX values.

I don't...and I don't see controller details in the appendixes of the manual.

Originally Posted by accession

And are you suggesting your patch name list in Pro Tools *only* has the ROM card? That's interesting.

I know...this is the part that I don't get. The ROM is a "read only" card. you can't write to it. I've taken memory protect off the Global menu. It's recieving program changes but for some reason the Pro Tools session is only seeing the ROM bank.

[miek07]

correct me if I'm wrong but I think Older Roland gear (D-50, JV1080, XP50, MC505) used Internal Bank CC0=81 and CC32=0 and PG0-63 is bank A11 to A88 and PG64-127=B11 to B88

CC32=1 woulde typically be Internal bank 2 C11-C88 D11-D88

CC0=82 CC32=1 is usually external bank UA11-A88 and UB11-B88

and another CC0 assignment for External media

In otherwords, you should disable BANK MSB from Rx on your D-50 or from Protools from Tx BANK MSB messages, your LSB and PG should be fine

michae
myspace.com/miekwavesoundlab

[Gothboy]

Well somehow I got it to work with the Card bank displayed in PT but using patch numbers lower than 64 that had different names...the names of the Card bank. I'm not sure why a patch # 84 would correspond to a much lower #...must be some reason...maybe because you only get 64 patch numbers in the old Roland schematic.
I'm going to try and fiddle with that info you gave miek...thanks for remembering those. I'll post after I check that out.

[miek07]

Originally Posted by Gothboy

Well somehow I got it to work with the Card bank displayed in PT but using patch numbers lower than 64 that had different names...the names of the Card bank. I'm not sure why a patch # 84 would correspond to a much lower #...must be some reason...maybe because you only get 64 patch numbers in the old Roland schematic.
I'm going to try and fiddle with that info you gave miek...thanks for remembering those. I'll post after I check that out.

Almost everything Roland uses the 8x8 scheme. So your patch #84 in PT would correspond to a ODD bank (B,D,F) in this case patch 84-64= patch 19 OR 20 (or in Roland scheme A21 or A22)
confused yet?

Roland patch numbers start at 11 while Pro Tools tx Starts at 00 so PG#00=A11 and PG#127=B88

michae
myspace.com/miekwavesoundlab

[Gothboy]

Originally Posted by miek07

Almost everything Roland uses the 8x8 scheme. So your patch #84 in PT would correspond to a ODD bank (B,D,F) in this case patch 84-64= patch 19 OR 20 (or in Roland scheme A21 or A22)
confused yet?

Oh yeah....totally confused. I don't know why the card bank patch names show up in the program change window in PT at all since none of my other hardware synths do that??? Not the Nova...not my Nords...just that ROM card bank.

Last night I tried putting CC0=81 and CC32=0 in the upper right side of the program change window but they don't stay there...so no changes so far as that goes. All those other numbers just make no sense to me as I don't know what to do with them!

[miek07]

heres a link to the D50 manual
I hope that helps


http://users.encounters.be/D50VE/manuals/D50_Manual.pdf

Page 56 (PDFpage87) is Internal and Card PG bank assignments

Page pdf123 is sound chart

Oddly I noticed is PB resolution is 9bits (as opposed to 14bit today)



michae
myspace.com/miekwavesoundlab

[accession]

^^^ Cool. Nice work!

From the Page 56 we can see exactly how the patches, internal and external, are mapped. But strangely, they're listed 1-128, whereas straight underneath it says '0-127 can be sent' and this is also what is stated in the MIDI Implementation under 'program change' at the back of the manual.

So to those who already pointed it out...

Program Changes 0-63 (or 1-64) = Internal Patches
Program Changes 64-127 (or 65-128) = External ROM

But what about cc00 and cc32? Not sure. No word of that in the manual.

[accession]

Originally Posted by Gothboy

Oh yeah....totally confused. I don't know why the card bank patch names show up in the program change window in PT at all since none of my other hardware synths do that??? Not the Nova...not my Nords...just that ROM card bank.

Because:
a) There's a .midnam (patch name) file for the D-50 on your computer
b) The D-50 has been labeled/assigned appropriately for the computer to link it back to the respective .midnam file.

I don't know how PCs are configured, but on the Mac, one needs to use the correct naming of the synths to match their respective midnam files in the Audio MIDI Setup application.