Setting up outboard gear for the first time

[DerpSteps]

Did a bunch of research and still can't get it to work.
Trying to use single mono slots in lunchbox as mono I/0 inserts for mono tracks in PT.

Windows 10 desktop to Apogee Symphony Desktop to Audient 880 via ADAT to Neve lunchbox via DB25 slots 2 and 3 back to Audient 880 using same cable numbers on second DB25. See screenshots.

Having a tough time grasping why Pro Tools and Symphony Desktop want to do everything in stereo pairs for I/O in all the screens on top of all the other configuration requirements. I'm only able to use the interface of the Symphony Desktop, as their Control software won't download to my computer for some reason. SD has a Routing page on the touch screen and it lists ADAT 1/2 and ADAT 3/4 instead of individual. When I open ADAT 1/2 it has SW Playbacks, Direct Mixers, and Direct HW Inputs (what I assume I should be using). Under the Direct HW Inputs it has the two analog inputs on the SD and individual and stereo Optical Inputs. See screenshot.

In the Audient 880 manual it has a diagram where you push in the blue A/D buttons on the front for each track when you are using DB25 to run outboard gear (which I have selected) and I have the gain up for the first four channels with 48 volts/pad off.

I've got a mono compressor in the 2nd slot of the lunchbox and a monotape saturation in the 3rd slot of the lunchbox and using cables 2 and 3 input output on the DB 25 respectively.

I've been able to use the lunchbox and the 880 going into the SD/PT for tracking, so I assume all equipment is functional. The DB25s are new Mogamis.

Any help would be massively appreciated. Thanks!

[Darryl Ramm]

Hi welcome to DUC.

I'm not familiar with Symphony Desktop, but many hardware mixers, and Pro Tools lets you configure I/O to be mono or stereo pairs... in Pro Tools you can edit anything you see in Setup>IO to be how you want it.

AES/EBU and ADAT and MADI are frequently seen as stereo pairs, well ADAT signals *are* physically stereo, but yes I also find it annoying when IO is setup like this. So I'll carefully customize Setup>IO>* and change the channel widths in RME TotalMix FX (equivalent to Symphony Desktop), etc.

I'm not sure I'm following what exactly your question is. You should start with reading the Pro Tools Reference Guide about IO setup. This video is also pretty nice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBtGjEhG6W8 That video is great for it's depth/width not basic explanations... if you don't understand all the terminology Google it or find it in the Reference Guide. Take time to play around customizing the Pro Tools IO paths etc. to be just what you want.. independent of having an open session. For Symphony Desktop etc. you need to start with the product documentation... many of these interface mixers have more capabilities than many users are aware of.

[albee1952]

Good advice above. My recommendation for your hardware is this: use it on the way in and then keep your mix 100% in the box. I'm happy to give you my reasons if you want. Re the IO and stereo paths, it might be best to simply delete all the stereo paths and create inputs from scratch, so you can set them up the way you want them. Example: some could be mono and some could be stereo(again, according to your needs and equipment

[DerpSteps]

Thanks for the suggestions. I checked the Audient 880 and Symphony Desktop manuals/user guides and I think I have them configured correctly. The SD suggests that you delete all the inputs and outputs and hit Default and now I see the two SD inputs and 8 ADAT channels. When I try to put in I/O on tracks it doesn't send the audio to the outboard gear.

[Darryl Ramm]

Break this down into the most basic steps possible. And follow the signal from beginning to end. And try to be better at describing *exactly* what you are doing and have tested. And it's very likely any problem is something you're doing wrong, so you need to say exactly what you're doing. Some of the questions below are a basic start, you should provide more info than that.

First ignore the outboard preamps and get the 880 working as an ADAT mic preamp. Drive a/some inputs on the 880 with a known good working mic(s). Does the 880 appear to be working at all? i.e. Can you get the SIG or PK lights to illuminate? Phantom power is on if needed? Pad is off? Mic is OK? Mic cable is OK? You are using an XLR not phono input plug?

Now connect to the the Apogee box via ADAT. What happens? What shows up in the optical IO meters?

What Optical format do you have the Symphony set to? S/PDIF or ADAT? What is the clock source? What sample rate are you running at? If above 48k you start losing inputs on the ADAT when it's using SMUX to handle higher clock rates and it only has a single optical input. Not uncommon to find folks plugged into the wrong TOSLINK ports mistaking inputs and outputs etc., or even to find a TOSLINK cables not seated all the way (some cheap cables seat badly), or TOSLINK cable end-protector still on the cable or stuck inside the port. Do you see red light at the end of the TOSLINK cable from the 880? Try a different TOSLINK cable. Try driving the Symphony optical in with S/PDIF, like from a CD or digital audio player to test the TOSLINK optical input work at all.

[DerpSteps]

Yeah, I'm 98% sure it is me lol

I've already ran a mic into the lunchbox, into the 880, and into the S. desktop interface via ADAT and recorded. So I know all the components work and can see each other.

I'm thinking it's probably the way I'm trying to set it up in PT.

Let me take some pics of my screens and attach them in the next reply. Thanks again for your time!

[Darryl Ramm]

Ugh if you have that all working then why are you asking here? I guess I misread the original post, but this is a Pro Tools forum... Hardware mic inserts on the 880 have *nothing* to do with Pro Tools or your Symphony desktop, none of that can "see" or cares about a hardware mic insert on the 880. So not sure why any of that was mentioned.

If a mic insert on some outboard box is not working it is likely 1. you've got the mic outputs connected wrong or 2. the insert is not enabled on that box, or 3. whatever you are feeding the signal through is not returning it, or 4. the output connection is wrong. You need to test each of these, again, troubleshooting 101 you need to following the signal path from source to destination.

What DB-25 cables are you using? It's a common mistake to use wrong pinout DB-25 cables. Why do you expect they are correct cables? You should be using TASCAM format analog cables. Check the cable pinouts using a multimeter in continuity mode.

Again start simple and start at one end and follow the signal. Get the 880 line level input on the DB-25 working first. You got as preamp in that 500 series rack? or drive any other 500 series box with a TRS or XLR input from anything (you have a Rupert Neve Design R6 rack?), try driving one channel with a TRS or XLR cable.. a CD player, test signal from one of your Symphony line outputs, whatever, you need to test the hardware connections if things are not working.

Get a loopback/pass through cable working next. If you have stuff miswired the signal will disappear when you engage the mic insert.

Now use the mic insert send from the 880.

Use a multimeter to test pinouts/wiring when driving stuff with a test tone.

If you don't have gear to test this. Buy a good multimeter, buy some nice small fly/test clips. etc.

But ultimately Dave is probably right, all this faffing around is likely not worth it. You are spending all this time, and cost, and adding extra conversion noise and latency, to get stuff that you could do well/better with a plugin.

[nsureit]

I had the same issue a few years ago when I had an 880. I contacted Audient and we figured out a work-around. Give them a call or send in a support request.

https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us...sked-Questions

[Darryl Ramm]

^^ nsurit do you remember what the problem was? That might help others here.

Also I made a mess of my troubleshooting comments. The place to usually start is with a loopback test. Take one DB25 to DB25 ribbon cable (hoping that's what you have) and connect between both DB25 on the 880. Now engaging the inserts should not change anything, you'll just hear the mic pres in both cases. And confirm you hear nothing when inserts are engaged and you disconnect the cable. If not then either the cable is wrong, or there is something wrong with the 880. And you can troubleshoot from here.

But unclear if the cable you have is DB25 to DB25 or it breaks out channels into XLR or TRS. Again the cables should be TASCAM analog cables, very standard, but not digital cables or possibly some computer cables that might look the same. Easy to check the wiring with a multimeter: https://tascam.com/downloads/tascam/...-25_Pinout.pdf

[nsureit]

The ASP-880 is an 8 channel preamp, not an audio interface. Audient explained the use of outboard gear to me this way: You can use the DB-25 inputs/outputs as insert points to send audio from the ASP880 preamps into external gear before bringing it back into the unit for A/D conversion. This can range from compressors, reverbs, EQs etc. When you push the A-D switch above the desired preamp channel, the ASP preamp will be routed to and from the outboard gear inserted on that channel. Or, it is also possible to use outboard preamps by connecting them to the DB-25 inputs and pressing the A-D switch which will bypass the 880’s preamps and send the outboard signal directly to the ASP’s converters, then into Pro Tools via ADAT. This flexibility means that you can make use of all 8 of the Audient preamps or use the converters with a favorite outboard preamp or two (or eight).

Keep in mind that you can’t use an insert in Pro Tools to route a track to the ASP-880 to use outboard gear attached to the 880. It won’t work that way. All your outboard processing must take place within the ASP-880 circuitry, then that processed signal will only route into Pro Tools as an ordinary input.