midi problem when using tempo beat markers! HELP

[crizdee]

Hi,

I have used beat detective to create tempo beat markers on a session and now trying to use midi!! but the midi parts are running all crazy and seem to be getting effected from the beat markers!? every time the beat changes to a new tempo the midi information gets triggered like a sort of gating effect and also the midi parts will continue to play after the midi information has stopped!

This song was recorded on 6.7 but now on 6.9 it is S.N.A.F.U

as soon as i disable the beat markers and use strict tempo the midi plays fine, but the track is then all out of time and at the wrong tempo etc!!

Mac osx 10.3.8 PT 6.9 HD3 accel

Regards
Chris

[Kurtstudio]

The easy fix is to BD the track and gets your tempos constant. Other than that work in small 4 measure units and be patient. If you'll fix the original audio records and correct their time you will enjoy the midi programming a lot more. You can save the tempos of the original recording as tempo templates. but if the tempos is forever changing, bad drummer etc... You’ll have to revert to working in smaller units instead and hand aligning the work.

[crizdee]

Hi,

This is clearly a problem with midi in pro tools! whan i started this mix there was no problem with the midi parts, everything was playing fine. We are now 2-3 days in to a large complex mix and bouncing the parts down insn't really an option! as we would lose all relative part levels etc!! pro tools really should be able to deal with such basic midi applications!? but this has confirmed my fears that PT midi really is basic and NOT professional. As well as the constant notes hanging almost every time i stop the sequence i now have this problem and find myself yet again sending my clients home with no finished product!! (this wasn't my vision of using Pro tools @ nearly £15k)

Using beat detective to create your tempo beat markers from live players and then playing midi to these tempo markers should be a breeze! for God sake i had better midi on my Atari and c-lab creator 18 years ago!! Digi when are you going to take midi seriously. Many times in Logic i would re-clock the song to the audio and then quantize the midi to that with never any problems, i jumped ship to PT to benefit from the better audio engine and TDM plugs, but as a professional midi user, i find PT's midi is mediocre and unreliable.

Excuse my if i sound p....d off, but i am. I'll be the first to admit pilot error, but 20 years using computers amd midi and this is the worst period i have had.

And don't you dare say go back to using logic


Regards

Chris

[carlone]

I do this same type of work fairly often. Sounds like Kurt gave the best advise. Work in small sections. Start with 4 bars, some sections you may have to try using only 1 or 2 bars. You're asking beat detective to "help" you establish a tempo from a live recording. This should be pretty easy unless the drummer just sucks.

For me, when doing this type of beat detective works it's much better to not try to have tempo changes happening every beat or sub beat but instad every 2-4 bars. If you're doing a complex mix with a bunch of midi parts changing tempos every second it sounds like the a trainwreck waiting to happen. Bounce some of the "working" midi stuff to audio and free up some CPU for the rest.

[asa]

I am confused. Your MIDI tracks are tick based and will be affected by bar beat markers in the tempo ruler. If MIDI tracks are being adjusted but not Audio tracks, then likely you have your Audio tracks set to be sample based, and when you generated the Bar Beat Markers, you told Pro Tools "Don't Move" sample based material.

Perhaps I am just confused on the process you used and why you are generating bar beat markers, ie, to just adjust audio, just adjust MIDI, or adjust both.

I am very familiar with Beat Detective and willing to help

[crizdee]

Hi,

Ok, perhaps i'm not explaining this very well! after recoding the band i have used beat detective to creat tempo markers to assist us when editing and moving parts around etc, then we have added midi parts? organ, piano etc and everything was running in time and sounding great. we run off a monitor mix and it sounds fine.

Then we recall the track to do the final mix and all the midi parts are now pulsating at every point there's a tempo change, sounds like the midi is getting signals from the clock source? plus when we play to the end of the midi regions and go beyond, the midi parts continue to play in a sort of random pattern but in time with the tracks tempo. i have done tracks before like this and used midi without these problems.

There was no problem when we created this mix!! only now after re calling it? has the problem arrised. i did upgrade to 6.9 between sessions but i have reverted back to 6.7 and it is still playing weird. the only other thing that changed between sessions was i changed 2 HD process cards to 2 accel cards.

Regards

Chris

[crizdee]

Hi,

I have spoken to Digi support UK, and they agree the midi has become corrupt or there's a bug etc, as using beat detective to creative beat markers should not effect the midi in this way! according to support, the midi should not be getting triggers like this making it sound like it is being re-played at every tempo change!!

This is happenin on sample based midi!!? sampletank / mach five etc BUT it is NOT happening on synths like indigo!!

I would appreciate it if someone could test this for and see if they are getting this problem!?

simply use beat detective to create beat markers on some live audio and then try adding some held chords with a sample based plugin, sample tank or mach five would be ideal if you have them!!
do the chords sound smooth or are they pulsating with the tempo changes?

Thanks in advance.

Regards

Chris

[Philthy]

a possible work-around-

export the midi, delete the midi tracks, and re-import the midi.