WorkFlows for "mixing in the box"

[TAFF]

Hi guys I wonder if anyone of you can share a bit of their experience with me on this issue. We have bought a 24 fader D Command. It's working with a HD5 and mojo on a Mac. Normally we are just sound editors working on projects such as Doctor Who. We have recently moved into a disused dubbing facility and want to premix our tracks there. What workflows do you use for mixing in the box? Normally to automate all levels pans etc in the tools then plug the io into a DFC or Harrison. Do you bus out the editors tracks into new tracks (keeping his/her automation and tracks intact) for premixing, then bus out to record tracks. It would be interesting to know how other people work the system.

Regards

Paul McFadden
Supervising Sound Editor
Doctor Who

www.bangpostproduction.com

[TheHenchman]

The first thing to do is find out what the final re-recording mixer requires, and what the mix stage can handle. Then work backwards for, how many plug-ins they can handle.etc.
There's no point doing a bunch of fancy premixing etc. if half of it dissappears when going to the mix stage.
The smartest thign to do is get them to give YOU a template to work from.

[TAFF]

We are the Mix stage Mark. We have just taken over a dubstage and re-equipped it with the above equipment. THe plugins are from the same machine. All we want to do is be able to recreate what we've been doing for years with conventional boards. (desks for us brits). Bring our tracks into the Dubstage machine play the tracks off it then bus out into new tracks so that the mixer can add eq compression reverb pan etc. We would then record those as a predub onto new record tracks. We would then playback that stem and mute the original tracks and then balance the bg's etc. Sorry if I confused you.

Paul McFadden
Supervising Sound Editor
Doctor Who

www.bangpostproduction.com

[TheHenchman]

We are the Mix stage Mark. We have just taken over a dubstage and re-equipped it with the above equipment. THe plugins are from the same machine. All we want to do is be able to recreate what we've been doing for years with conventional boards. (desks for us brits). Bring our tracks into the Dubstage machine play the tracks off it then bus out into new tracks so that the mixer can add eq compression reverb pan etc. We would then record those as a predub onto new record tracks. We would then playback that stem and mute the original tracks and then balance the bg's etc. Sorry if I confused you.

Paul McFadden
Supervising Sound Editor
Doctor Who

www.bangpostproduction.com

Well, when you say premix, I was assuming you want to do a bunch of stuff virtual, and send that, without actually printing anything, to the dubstage..
That's what we do here, so it's a simple task of making a change to something, without having to go back to the original pre-dub mixes.
We tend to use pro-tools as our playback device, so if we are doing a SFX/BG/Foley premix, we tend to do it in the PT session, which then feed the System5 console. But we only do that with features.
On the TV Series and MOW's we only do a dialogue pre-mix, and that gets re-recorded back into the same session, and those tracks go to the stage, but are again mixed from Pro-Tools using a Pro-Control.

If you're already pre-mixing in pro-tools, why not just get a D-Control, and mix straight to your stems, and be done with it. Especially for TV stuff.
Thereby alleviating the need for a ton of I/O.

BTW, need a dialog mixer?

[Pete Gates]

Hi Paul,
Unless you have a pressing need to, why print anything except maybe dialogues before the final mastering. If you've got an HD5 you've got enough horsepower to run a decent number of tracks/plugins/busses. Bussing individual dial tracks to preserve the source tracks (unless you only have a few) generally ends up being more trouble than it's worth and you don't gain much apart from potentially individual post-fade dynamics. Instead many people move the fader volume graphing to a trim plugin (or blow it away!) to regain flat faders. Are you mixing entirely in the box or are you supplying to an external theatre, it's a little unclear from your first post?

Pete

[TAFF]

Hi Pete thanks for the reply. It's a bit of both really. We have a job in that'll be fine to mix normally i.e. no printing to premixes but mixing virtually. We also have a job that we are just being hired to do the premixing and doing the final in a theatre which has a pyramix system. It really looks like that there is no common answer. Each project will have to be looked at on an individual basis. I do like the idea though of printing premixes. Just call me "old fashioned".

All the best

Paul McFadden
Supervising Sound Editor
Doctor Who

www.bangpostproduction.com

[Joe Griffin]

Nothing to add really except to say hi from a longtime Dr. Who fan.

[Pete Gates]

I do like the idea though of printing premixes. Just call me "old fashioned".

Oh believe me I've been there, not exactly an old timer but I've been in the industry for 25 years. The last remaining person I knew who still printed FX pres has stopped and says it has been a revelation. Some people I know don't even print dials anymore. One challenging director and a printed FX pre can become worthless. Good or bad, productions often expect to be able to manipulate tracks as though they were still in the cutting room - Avid/Lightworks/FCP et al have made them think that everything is that easy and to stop sounding like a luddite for a second: why shouldn't it be? Where you're having to send to Pyramix is going to be a bit more challenging though, depending on the scale (and assuming it's TV for a sec) you'll want to break out to Production Dials/ADR/FX/Atmos/Foley/Music at least I would have thought, but people work in all sorts of different ways as we all know!

All the best,
Pete

[Pete Gates]

ps forgot to say, good luck with the studio! You've got to applaud anyone's bravery in setting up these days. I'll be down in Llangenith for a month's holiday next month - not far from you as you'll know better than me, great part of the world!

Pete