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  #1  
Old 12-14-2003, 10:02 PM
wiznant wiznant is offline
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Default setup for recording live performances

I posted this in a seperate thread but it was sorta old, so I figured I should create my own thread so that it may be seen. I want to get something like the mackie 1604vlz pro (if you have any recommendations for a better mixer around the same price, please let me know) as my mixing board for live sound. Once I hook all the mics into this I want to hook this up to my Digi 002r so that I may record my bands, or any bands, live performance. Basiscly I want to be the sound tech and run sound for bands, as well as record the performance. My question is, what is the best way to hook the mackie up to the Digi 002r in order to give the best possible sounding recording, as well as have as much control over each instrument when I get home to edit. Also Im wondering if I can purchase the Focusrite Octapre and add 8 more inputs to my live recording setup. This is all incredibly new to me, and detailed information will be very helpful. The main thing I dont understand is how to hook all this up to the Digi for recording. Ive done a lot of searching on the forum but everything I found on this topic was not very understandable for the newbie.

Thanks a lot,
Allan

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  #2  
Old 12-14-2003, 11:09 PM
DoneDigi DoneDigi is offline
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Default Re: setup for recording live performances

Basically this is how I do it:

I send my Mackie's (1640VLZ) 8 outputs, 4 aux outputs and 2 main outputs into my Digi 001 and Digimax LT's inputs.

1 Kick -> Input 1 of LT
2 Snare -> Input 2 of LT
3 Hihat -> Input 3 of LT
4 Tom 1 -> Input 4 of LT
5 Tom 2 -> Input 5 of LT
6 OH L -> Input 6 of LT
7 OH R -> Input 7 of LT
8 Bass -> Input 8 of LT
9 GTR 1 -> Input 3 of 001
10 GTR 2 -> Input 4 of 001
11 Vox 1 -> Input 5 of 001
12 Vox 2 -> Input 6 of 001
Main L -> Input 7 of 001
Main R -> Input 8 of 001
Room 1 -> Mic Line 1 (bypassing the mixer)
Room 2 -> Mic Line 2 (bypassing the mixer)

I creat 12 mono tracks for each individual instrument/mic, 2 mono track for the Room mics and 1 stereo track for Main L&R.
I know I left alot of detail out but you get the picture. Hope this helps!
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  #3  
Old 12-15-2003, 12:31 AM
minmax minmax is offline
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Default Re: setup for recording live performances

Allan, DoneDigi answered your question, but just so it is clear to you :
you could hook all 16 mics or instruments->to mackie 1604VLZ mixer.
from mixer 8 analog outs->8 analog ins of your 002 (line inputs)
from mixer 8 analog outs->8 analog ins of your Octopre
from Octopre 8 digital outs(adat optical)->8 digital ins(adat optical) of your 002.
In this setup your Octopre is not used for the micpre but for A/D conversion. The reason being is that 001 or 002 can only accept 8 analog ins (I might be wrong about 002 you might have 12 analog ins available to you). But the input count could be 16 (8 analog ins and 8 digital ins). In order to use all 16 inputs (in your case it could be 20 b/c you have a 002) you need 8 digital signals+8 analog signals.

Or
You could hook 8 mics/instrument to Mackie
8 mics/instrument to Octopre
4 mics to 002
from mixer 8 analog outs -> 8 analog ins of your 002
from Octopre 8 digital outs (adat optical)-> 8 digital ins(adat optical) of your 002
plus the 4 mics you have hooked up to your 002.

So to answer your question, you don't have 24 inputs available to record. You have 20 inputs.
If you buy a Mackie MDR 24 channel digital recorder + 002 + Mackie 1604VLX board + Octopre then you would have 36 channel recording capability. Which is:
16 mixer -> Mackie MDR
8 Octopre -> Mackie MDR
4 mic inputs of 002= 28 possible mic inputs
plus
8 line inputs of 002
which brings the grand total to 36 channels.
Maybe you could have 44 inputs all together but it's 2:30 am and I'm sleepy and all this math and configuration is starting to confuse me.
For your sake to keep things simple just ignore the Mackie MDR configuration.
Hope this helped rather than confuse you, hell I confused my self with this MDR thing
Tuvan
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  #4  
Old 12-15-2003, 04:45 AM
wiznant wiznant is offline
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Default Re: setup for recording live performances

thanks a lot for the reply, that helped a lot.
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  #5  
Old 12-15-2003, 10:51 AM
SSRJazz SSRJazz is offline
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Default Re: setup for recording live performances

Minimax> The 1604 only has 8 direct outs/inserts on the first 8 channels of the board. You can fudge a few more outs by using the aux sends and also using the master channels with the last 2 tracks on the board as posted above (I never thought about that...cuz I use 2 channels to monitor the mix while recording other tracks....great idea tho.)

It's possible tho! =)
__________________
-Jeff Schoby
Sacred Soul Records
http://www.sacredsoulrecords.com
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  #6  
Old 12-15-2003, 11:13 AM
Skapegrace Skapegrace is offline
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Default Re: setup for recording live performances

hi guys

since u know about mixers, would it be unwise to use a Mackie recording console e.g.Mackie analog 8bus for live recording?
it looks nice and i guess if i had the money i'd buy that so i could do wotever
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  #7  
Old 12-15-2003, 01:56 PM
thomsbrain thomsbrain is offline
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Default Re: setup for recording live performances

first of all, the mic pres on the 002 are NOT in addition to the 8 analog in. they are either/or inputs for analog 1-4. that means you only have 8 analog inputs on the 002. no more. to get more inputs, you need to use the Octapre. here's what i would do:

since the mackie only has 8 direct outs, send those to the 002. the next 4 channels of the mackie you can mix to your 4 busses, then send those to inputs 1-4 of the Octapre. Then, if you need more channels, the last 4 channels of the Mackie, you can use Aux outs to send them to inputs 5-8 of the Octapre. Octapre gets plugged into the ADAT inputs of the 002.

This allows you to mix for live sound and still send signals off the to 002.

as for the 8 bus mixers, yes, they are better for EVERYTHING, not just recording. maybe not as sturdy as the SR series, i don't know, but the 32x8 my band has seems plenty sturdy. they are great because they have direct outs on all channels PLUS tape outs on 1-24. if you've got the money, they are better mixers.
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  #8  
Old 12-15-2003, 02:03 PM
where02190 where02190 is offline
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Location: Boston, Ma USA
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Default Re: setup for recording live performances

For the price of the Octapre you can get a used Mackie MDR 24/96, a couple external drives, and a Firedock. which you use to tranfer your live tracks from the MDR to Protools for editing and mixing.

24 inputs is plenty for most bands, unless they are exceptionally huge. consolewise, get yourself something with decent mic pre's, like the Midas Venice, and pre everything direct outs. If the console is dedicted to recording, you'll need a splitter snake as well. You can also insert the MDR, therefore deriving pre everything sends via the insert send, and monitor through the machine, it routing back the insert return, whcih you can use the eq and sends to do a rough reference mix from the L/R outs of the console.

The Preamps on the Mackie live consoles ar enot quite asgood as their recording consoles, but the difference is IMHO marginal.

You can easily submix some things also, like toms to a stereo group, cymbals to another(overheads and hat), keyboards (if a single player plays multiple keys with no mixer) a B-3 can be submixed to one channel, even a horn section or bg vox canbe submixed.

The MDR is a kick butt machine. We have two of them for jsut the purpose of live reocording. we often go in with just the machines, taking the inhouse consoles direct outs, and get killer results. They are extremely reliable, and Mackie support is the best there is.

You might want to check out their Hard disc recorder forum
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2003, 09:22 PM
wiznant wiznant is offline
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Default Re: setup for recording live performances

Ok, I just thought of something. What would be wrong with using the Digi 002(not the rack) along with a presonus digimax, or octupre, and using that as the mixing board for the PA; as well as being able to record to the computer at the same time. From what Im thinking, I would have 16 inputs(12 XLR), that I would be able to control with the faders on the Digi. As many thoughts on this idea that you can think of. Any problems with this? better Ideas? Theres just so many different ways to go about this, and want to figure out every option before I dive in.

Thanks even more,
Allan
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2003, 11:42 PM
minmax minmax is offline
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Default Re: setup for recording live performances

thanks Jeff and thomsbrain for correcting me. I didn't mean to misinform Allan. I own a 001 not a 002, so to help him I just looked at 002 pix and saw 8 analog ins and 4 XLR's. I assumed it would total 12 analog ins all together, I was wrong.
I don't own a mackie 1604 either, I made another assumption, I was wrong again. We are all learning that's why DUC is a great place. Originally I had started a thread with a similar question and 02190 had answered me saying Mackie MDR and Octopre would be the way to go. I agree completely. Whenever I get the money together that's what I'll do. On the other hand I believe Allan wants to record using a board, 8 mic pres (digimax or octopre) and 002 only. That's why in my reply above I tried to keep it simple -without the MDR- listing different ways to go about it.
Hopefully I was helpful Allan and sorry about my lack of knowledge on 002 and the 1604.
It's almost 2 am again. I'm going to watch a movie and fall asleep in the process. good night y'all.
Tuvan
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