MIDI in 2021 and BEYOND

[take77]

I just want to drag & drop a drum loop. lol

Dragging a 4 bar pattern and having it drop in at 4 bars & 32 samples is literally a drag.

A random occurrence yet inevitable when drag & dropping or copy/pasting.

Before advising me to go to another DAW, please read my previous post on page 2.

Simply stated: Not what I've been paying for.
Especially since the problem only started after PT12 was introduced.
My guess is they just don't want to rebuild the engine (I realize PT is primarily for recording & mixing). Or they simply don't know how.

I volunteer to be a spy so as to ascertain the trade secrets of other devs!

I'm a guitarist by the way. So I am a musician and would just like to efficiently create accompaniment tracks in the DAW I've paid to use.

[ejsongs]

Originally Posted by take77

I just want to drag & drop a drum loop. lol

Dragging a 4 bar pattern and having it drop in at 4 bars & 32 samples is literally a drag.

A random occurrence yet inevitable when drag & dropping or copy/pasting.

Before advising me to go to another DAW, please read my previous post on page 2.

Simply stated: Not what I've been paying for.
Especially since the problem only started after PT12 was introduced.
My guess is they just don't want to rebuild the engine (I realize PT is primarily for recording & mixing). Or they simply don't know how.

I volunteer to be a spy so as to ascertain the trade secrets of other devs!

I'm a guitarist by the way. So I am a musician and would just like to efficiently create accompaniment tracks in the DAW I've paid to use.

I'm a guitarist as well. Can you elaborate more? I have never run into this issue.


Thanks,


Ej

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by take77

I just want to drag & drop a drum loop. lol

Dragging a 4 bar pattern and having it drop in at 4 bars & 32 samples is literally a drag.

A random occurrence yet inevitable when drag & dropping or copy/pasting.

Before advising me to go to another DAW, please read my previous post on page 2.

Simply stated: Not what I've been paying for.
Especially since the problem only started after PT12 was introduced.
My guess is they just don't want to rebuild the engine (I realize PT is primarily for recording & mixing). Or they simply don't know how.

I volunteer to be a spy so as to ascertain the trade secrets of other devs!

I'm a guitarist by the way. So I am a musician and would just like to efficiently create accompaniment tracks in the DAW I've paid to use.

Humm yes please give a bit more detail as to what the issue is "literally a drag" is pretty vague . I am also a singer guitar player and do some sessions with midi accompaniment tracks , but I usually play in or program in drums .. I often copy and paste after playing a few bars and have not noticed an issue I'll guess have to try to drag and drop a drum loop and see if it is an issue ...

[daeron80]

Originally Posted by take77

having it drop in at 4 bars & 32 samples is literally a drag.

32 samples is less than 1 ms at any relevant sample rate. I'm curious what issues arise from that.

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by daeron80

32 samples is less than 1 ms at any relevant sample rate. I'm curious what issues arise from that.

Ah yes the vagueness of the internet, I guess he meant 4 bars + 32 samples

[take77]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Ah yes the vagueness of the internet, I guess he meant 4 bars + 32 samples

Sorry about the misunderstanding on my part. I can see how my choice of words could be more specific to bar length getting altered.
Sometimes not so noticeable audibly but eventually everything else falls out of line.
Especially when the bass collides with a keyboard chord.

The issue does only seems to happen at various tempos and sample rates.
Where an even bar length ends up being a different length after being dropped in.
Not every time but often in some sessions.
4 bars becomes 4 Bars + 32 samples added or 8 bars becomes 7 bars and an off number of samples that falls short of the original length after being copied.

Then I have to readjust the clip length by dragging the edge back to the proper length. Which is why it is literally a "drag" having to drag the clip edge back to a 4 bar length after dragging & dropping.
I have to keep readjusting the clips to fit and not make other clip notes disappear.

I'm glad others are not having the same issue in their sessions.
I'm now focusing on my guitar playing and would like to just drag n drop some patterns from the libraries I invested in without this issue in any session whatsoever.
My current session I've created all the drum patterns myself but still have the clip length issues when copying & pasting.

Have a nice weekend!

[Leigh Marble]

Originally Posted by kmack

And you can accomplish what is seen here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKIz7CriNpA

Originally Posted by kmack

What I cannot do is control any possible automatable parameter in non-virtual instrument plugins using a midi controller (configured either as M-audio keyboard or HUI). I'm told this is possible, or at least it used to be possible at some point.

Pro Tools has a built-in Plug-In Mapping feature that you're seeing there in that Pro Tools 8 video, which is separate from the MIDI learn function that some plugins may happen to offer (like you can see in that video that Sardi posted here).

But despite what others are saying here, Pro Tools' built-in Plug-In Mapping is NOT just for Eucon controllers. And, although that Pro Tools 8 video is old at this point, those features still exist in the current version of Pro Tools. If you look in the Pro Tools Reference Guide PDF for "Control Surface Mapping", there's a list of the control surfaces that support it, including the C24, the Command 8, D-Control, and others.

Using these features, the new Mulligan software from reFuse can allow you to do exactly what you're saying you want to do: control any plugin with a generic MIDI controller in Pro Tools. And parameter changes are saved to the regular automation lane, not saved on a separate MIDI track.

A brief demonstration of Mulligan in action:
https://youtu.be/J-oqFhJJ7GQ

Full disclosure: I worked on developing Mulligan. It sounds like it does exactly what you want a plugin controller to do, so I figured I'd pipe up about it. But I'm not here to do a hard sell on it!

[Benny_Cha_Cha]

Thanks, Leigh for Mulligan. Working great over here. I do have a couple of feature requests that I'll email you about.


Thing I wanted to bring up here is that I can only enable the Plugin-In Map "Learn" button if I choose "New Map". Does not enable just by clicking. Which means I can't do "Save Map As..." to just alter the default. The only way I can enable "Learn" is by choosing "New Map," meaning I have to remap all the plugin functions for any plugin I want to change the mapping up.


I'm on the latest version of PT. Any ideas why this is happening? (Reserving PT snark for now.)


thanks
ben

Originally Posted by Leigh Marble

Pro Tools has a built-in Plug-In Mapping feature that you're seeing there in that Pro Tools 8 video, which is separate from the MIDI learn function that some plugins may happen to offer (like you can see in that video that Sardi posted here).

But despite what others are saying here, Pro Tools' built-in Plug-In Mapping is NOT just for Eucon controllers. And, although that Pro Tools 8 video is old at this point, those features still exist in the current version of Pro Tools. If you look in the Pro Tools Reference Guide PDF for "Control Surface Mapping", there's a list of the control surfaces that support it, including the C24, the Command 8, D-Control, and others.

Using these features, the new Mulligan software from reFuse can allow you to do exactly what you're saying you want to do: control any plugin with a generic MIDI controller in Pro Tools. And parameter changes are saved to the regular automation lane, not saved on a separate MIDI track.

A brief demonstration of Mulligan in action:
https://youtu.be/J-oqFhJJ7GQ

Full disclosure: I worked on developing Mulligan. It sounds like it does exactly what you want a plugin controller to do, so I figured I'd pipe up about it. But I'm not here to do a hard sell on it!

[Leigh Marble]

Originally Posted by Benny_Cha_Cha

Thing I wanted to bring up here is that I can only enable the Plugin-In Map "Learn" button if I choose "New Map". Does not enable just by clicking. Which means I can't do "Save Map As..." to just alter the default. The only way I can enable "Learn" is by choosing "New Map," meaning I have to remap all the plugin functions for any plugin I want to change the mapping up.

hi Ben,

Great, glad to hear that Mulligan is working well for you.

I did have another user email me about this exact same problem with the "Learn" button. The solution, it turns out, was to make sure that in Pro Tools' Peripherals -> MIDI Controllers window, that Mulligan is in the first slot. The other user had had a HUI controller in slot #1, and Mulligan in slot #2. Swapping that order fixed the issue of the Learn button being disabled.

I'll keep an eye out for your email!

cheers,
Leigh

[Benny_Cha_Cha]

Thanks much, Leigh. I can report that putting Mulligan in slot 1 does in fact resolve the issue. Unfortunately, as I need my Faderport 8 in slot 1, this will not work for me long-term. Is this a bug on Avid's side or yours? Would be great to get this resolved.

Originally Posted by Leigh Marble

hi Ben,

Great, glad to hear that Mulligan is working well for you.

I did have another user email me about this exact same problem with the "Learn" button. The solution, it turns out, was to make sure that in Pro Tools' Peripherals -> MIDI Controllers window, that Mulligan is in the first slot. The other user had had a HUI controller in slot #1, and Mulligan in slot #2. Swapping that order fixed the issue of the Learn button being disabled.

I'll keep an eye out for your email!

cheers,
Leigh

Ben Rubin

Producer//Mixer//Bassist//Composer

benrubin.com

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PT Ultimate 2021.10, MacBookPro i9 8-core 2.3gHz, 32Gb RAM, Mac OSX 10.15.7, SSD boot drive, SSD sample drive
Neve 8816, HD Native PCIe, Apogee DA-16X, Lynx Aurora 16, Benchmark DAC-1/ADC-1