Mastering help? .... or is it a mix issue?

[TDub]

sorry, posted this in wrong spot ... supposed to be here in windowsLE

Hey everyone,
I've recently completed some mixing and did a first pass of Mastering with Ozone4. Like everyone else, i'm shooting for it to sound as "professional" as can be ... but doesn't seem right. Any feedback/advice to make tunes sound better? To be frank: our band, we recorded/mixed/mastered self.
Open to criticism

appreciate it,

http://www.reverbnation.com/tdub2013

[sw rec]

Sort of an ambiguous question, but I can say that the best mastering house in the world can't do a thing for a bad mix. I've seen world-class Mastering engineers go back to world-class mix engineers with suggestions on a remix to make the mastering process better. Takes a lot of mixing/remixing/re-re-re-re mixing.....
Now, having listened to "Dirty Laundry" my first impression is that the drums are a little weak. (BUT this is coming from a drummer!!!!) If it were me I'd compress the crap out of the snare drum and push it up in the mix (I like the BF3a for this). Make it smack you between the eyes. And get the kick a little punchier.
You have good "dimension" going on here. And I'd say you're close.
Also bear in mind you could give these tracks to ten different guys and get back ten different mixes and they could all be great, so opinion is HUGE on this subject.
Just one guy's two cents worth.

[720hours World Record]

I also listened to "Tape Deck" and I am also a drummer.

SO - yes as "sw rec" said the drum mix needs help, the snare is the strongest, the hihat is much lower and the bass drum is almost lost in the mix. Also the drums are late - but consistantly late, maybe too low a click track to the drummer or listening to a reverb trail with not much dry signal or other issue, regardless of the cause - move the drums up in time and it should sound a lot better.

Ozone is a good mastering plugin - but take the time in the manual to learn its tweeks - it will be worth the reading. While your music is playing and the preset window is open - you can switch between presets and get instant feedback on the selected preset sound. Dont forget to take a listen of the test song to as many music players as possible, work the EQ until it sounds good on ALL of them.

GOOD luck on your project - since you took the time to ask for help - you and your band should do well.

[TDub]

Really appreciate the honest and specific feedback guys! Gets hard to step back and hear where the issues are after listening to it for so many hours!! This is very useful info, so back to the mixing board I go
thank you all again for taking the time to comment and provide help!

[720hours World Record]

Originally Posted by TDub

Really appreciate the honest and specific feedback guys! Gets hard to step back and hear where the issues are after listening to it for so many hours!! This is very useful info, so back to the mixing board I go
thank you all again for taking the time to comment and provide help!

I would like to add one more helpful tool, take your songs and some of the favorate music/songs your band likes (the ones that they would like to be like someday) and intermix them on a cd: >> like your song, the pros song, your next song, another pro song etc on a CD - listen to it on all players you can - it will open up your ears and mind and give you a target to shoot for, it will help you in song composition, mixing and mastering.

[mano111]

I agree with sw rec on drums. You need a bit more center focus = snare and kik need to be compressed and then raised. Rooms need to be a bit more controlled (maybe pan them less extremes?).

As far as vocals go Dirty Laundry (my favorite song of the three) has the best vocal balance of the 3 mixes. The lead vocal sounds closer and has more presence.

Overall from a pure mix perspective it seems you are really enjoying the wide stereo effect and it takes away form the lead parts - be it lead guitar, drums (snare+kik), and lead vocals. You need to find ways to add more character to these lead parts and make them stand out. It helps to think of it as a 3D image and try to focus the 'spotlight' on parts in that 3D space.

Your not that far from final mix IMO.
Mix is a matter of style too. so this could only be my personal opinion. And lets not forget i'm listening to a low bit rate version over the internet - that obviously affects the way I perceive it.

[pianosound]

Along the lines of what 720hours said,,, take one of those 'pro' songs and import into a track on PT's with one of your songs. Mute and unmute each song (yours and the 'pros'), comparing the mix!! Good luck,,,,,, Mike

[sw rec]

I would like to add one more helpful tool, take your songs and some of the favorate music/songs your band likes (the ones that they would like to be like someday) and intermix them on a cd: >> like your song, the pros song, your next song, another pro song etc on a CD - listen to it on all players you can - it will open up your ears and mind and give you a target to shoot for, it will help you in song composition, mixing and mastering.

+100 points...I tell my students exactly the same thing!!

[TDub]

More great feedback!
I like the idea of a cd with one of ours then one professional, etc ... and listen through noting differences. I do a/b it in PT, but this is another good way.
also like the specific ideas from mano111. Very helpful around drums.
What do you mean around the wide stereo effect? I know i've mixed it up a bit (some guitars at 10 some at 2 or 3pm, etc ) I do spread wide the overheads and i do sometimes add an aux delay on guitars that will pan to the opposite side as the track itself. Is that the piece you mean?
again, this is all very very helpful guys.
Thank you sincerely

[mano111]

I was a bit hesitant on that reply. I really didn't want to get too specific so I do not get you off track (so to speak).
It is your mix, and therefor your job to nail it. I said what I felt, and if it helped you then its great. Sorry for not pushing this, but if was in the mix room with you I would be as specific as it gets (all the way down to the 0.1 db)

For what its worth I think you did a very good job with guitars.

Possibly the best advice is trust your own ears.

Please keep us posted.