Any suggestions for mixing a Heavy Rock Band?

[gabadilla]

I spent the weekend recording a good Heavy Rock / Metal band. The sound they desired was "heavy" without being muddy. I'm used to recording more rock bands who like the brightness and sheen of the songs they hear on the radio. I believe they play tuned down to a C. I guess I can only describe it as very thick.

Does anyone have any experience they can share in this area?

Any pointers or techniques which might help me out?

I'm particulary concerned about this muddiness issue... Do you know what frequencies I should beware of to avoid it becoming a muddy mess?

Thanks!

-gabe

[OgnKog]

I would say to be aware of 200 Hz freq in the guitars. I mainly mix Metal and that is the point where the guitars hurt me most of the time. You can also check up to 350 Hz.

By the way, i'm sure that they are lookin for a massive-in-your-face-kick-in-your-ass stuff... well, i'd make the kick drum sound small, the bass on a second plane (listen to bass in Metal albums, it's almost always unhearable), and let the guitars be upfront with the snare (and the small bass drum).

This way you'll have lots of energy from the guitars and drums and the lower freqs will not harm the mix.

I know this sounds a bit extreme but it has worked quite good for me. BTW, compressin bass A LOT [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] , helps also.

Hope this helps.

Al.

P.S. Don't listen to the bass player when he doesn't hear his tracks... [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] this is quite common, in the end, all other people tell me: "Hey the bass its great and its allways in its place !".

See ya.

[GORILLA]

Ognkog....make the kick small????? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
Thats different [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
Man practically all I do are metal/speed metal bands and true the bass usaually gets tangeled with the drop C or drop B tuned Axes, but the kick is an important part of Metal sound. It's gotta Thump and snap!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
In no way am I saying it's wrong (Theres NO RULES!!) just different...... [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
I think in Metal/ Death Metal...the sound domination pecking order goes Guitars/Kick/Snare/Vocals(Growls?)...and Bass is down the list a tad [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[tantejo]

i almost always end up with a sampled kick.
with the low c tuning, there's a little space for the bassguitar, so you have to be aware of that. in fact i do some low end filter of the guitars. when you have a good guitar sound. you can do that. when the guitar plays solo, you can add some low eq. (thanks for the automation)
4 out 5 drummers don't hit the snare hard/good enough when they are playing double bass, so you need to work on that too, and a lot of the metal drummers i record have their toms in a very close range, so you get a lot of spill from the mic's.
if a bass guitar is also tuned down, the sound of the string can become 'sloppy', i don't know precise how to describe it in english. i hope it is a 5 string bass and not tuned down.
also i add plenty of reverb to the drumssound to give a bit of that huge metal drum sound. but, i filter the low end to avoid the mudiness. most of the time metal drummers like their toms and snare also to have a lot of
low end, so i think you have to check all the individual sounds and give them their place in the music, otherwise it is indeed mudiness.
i have checked some metal mixes with a spectrum analyser and there's not a lot above the 3K !
i think it's good to take your mixes to an experienced master engineer.
greetings, tantejo.

[OgnKog]

I was expecting your answer GORILLA ! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

I've seen your work and really love it, it is amazing the sound of some of the songs you recorded only with 001.

Let me clarify. When I say to make the BD small i mean that it has to be very very well defined, remember that in this metal world every one wants to be in the Bass World Frequencies. So by cutting lots of unnecessary freqs of the bass drum you can get a lot of the dirt out.

Please, excuse my bad explaining, i'm doing the best i can [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

See ya,

Al.

[clorox]

Actually, I think that it's not so much a matter of mixing the bass down. Rather, make the bass and low end guitar kinda "blend together" so you get a low "chug".

On our album, you can't really "hear" the bass on some of the heavy parts, but if you mute the bass track it sounds like the low end fell out of the guitar.

Of course, you need a tight bass/guitar tandem. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[valvebrother]

Get an SPL meter from radio shack and make sure you're monitoring at ~85 dB.

Don't change the monitor volume no matter how much the band pleads.

Otherwise, if you mix hotter, with music that is focused SO much on thick, bassy bottom tone, you're likely to misjudge your bass mixing efforts and wind up with crud.

D

[jeronimo]

Hello there!
A few points I've learned in the couple of years I'm recording heavy stuff...
First... You have to leave something down in the mix to leave space to other stuff...
As said before, most of the time is guits in front, drums, vox and bass... of course it depends on the tune...
Check this song and tell me what you think. Let's discuss the mix... what do you guys think?

[gabadilla]

Thanks for helping me out everyone. I'm mixing it right now and the bass and guitar are acting as one defined unit. There's only one guitar player but I have 3 recorded tracks of him.


1. direct out from amp head (brighter)
2. mic'd cab (super bassy)
3. I had him record a second take using my J station so that I'd have lots to work with. It's a nice Rectified feel.

How should I approach mixing these guitars? I'm guessing go for the hard pan right and left to get that wall of guitar sound?

Also, when mixing these drums, the hi hats sound really trashy through the overhead mics. Any suggestions on how to clean it up?

And do you think I should use EQ shelving at? hi pass / lo pass type of stuff? Or should I roll off the frequencies?

It's definitely sounding thick, but not as clear as I'd like. Thanks for all your help already!

-gabe

[tantejo]

hello, jeronimo, i like the song. what is the language ?
i listened it on my emac with build in speakers, so i can't really say something about the sound of the song, but what i heard was ok.
the drums was a could have been mixed more upfront for my taste, so as the vocal, but i guess it's a personal matter.
how did you recorded this song ?
greetings, tantejo. capturesoundstudio