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  #1  
Old 09-27-2021, 11:54 AM
alberti1 alberti1 is offline
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Default Some prepurchase questions

I ordered a Carbon but they are on back order at the moment. That gives me some time to make sure this is the right choice for me. Here are a few questions that I have before I really commit.

1. Carbon comes with a standard PT, 1 year license with a perpetual parachute and now there is an offer for a free perpetual license of Ultimate. Does that mean you’ll get both, a perpetual Ultimate and a standard perpetual license?

2. Can someone please tell me what kind of latency I can expect from the Carbon when running other DAWs? I understand the dsp wont work in other DAWs. When I look at the roundtrip latency in Logic for a 24 bit 48k with 64 buffer size using my 1248 with the Thunderbolt connection, I get about 3.3 ms roundtrip. With my Apogee Symphony Desktop, I get 7.7 ms roundtrip. This is on a 6-core 2018 Mac mini. What could I expect from the Carbon with the same settings?

3. Scenario – I’m running SSL Channel Strip 2 on all channels including the master fader but not the aux. I then buss all the channels to a stereo aux with a dsp dverb with dsp activated on that channel. Would all Channel Strip 2 plugins get disabled or just the one on the master fader?

4. Depending on the answer to the question above, will my SSL UC1 be useless in dsp mode or are there work arounds? If I can’t put Channel Strip 2 on every channel it kind of ruins the best part of using the UC1. And does anyone know if SSL plans to make an aax dsp version of their plugins?

Thanks for any help

Last edited by alberti1; 09-27-2021 at 04:04 PM. Reason: minor edits and formatting
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  #2  
Old 09-28-2021, 05:44 AM
digiot digiot is offline
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Default Re: Some prepurchase questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by alberti1 View Post
I ordered a Carbon but they are on back order at the moment. That gives me some time to make sure this is the right choice for me. Here are a few questions that I have before I really commit.

1. Carbon comes with a standard PT, 1 year license with a perpetual parachute and now there is an offer for a free perpetual license of Ultimate. Does that mean youíll get both, a perpetual Ultimate and a standard perpetual license?
Yup you will get both perpetual licenses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alberti1 View Post
2. Can someone please tell me what kind of latency I can expect from the Carbon when running other DAWs? I understand the dsp wont work in other DAWs. When I look at the roundtrip latency in Logic for a 24 bit 48k with 64 buffer size using my 1248 with the Thunderbolt connection, I get about 3.3 ms roundtrip. With my Apogee Symphony Desktop, I get 7.7 ms roundtrip. This is on a 6-core 2018 Mac mini. What could I expect from the Carbon with the same settings?
Itís probably not going to be better then the 1248 so I would suggest you keep using that. Avid native interfaces never had great low latency specs.

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Originally Posted by alberti1 View Post
3. Scenario Ė Iím running SSL Channel Strip 2 on all channels including the master fader but not the aux. I then buss all the channels to a stereo aux with a dsp dverb with dsp activated on that channel. Would all Channel Strip 2 plugins get disabled or just the one on the master fader?
It would still work, anything downstream from a DSP enabled track can also be taken out of DSP mode if needed. (DSP Safe Mode)

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Originally Posted by alberti1 View Post
4. Depending on the answer to the question above, will my SSL UC1 be useless in dsp mode or are there work arounds? If I canít put Channel Strip 2 on every channel it kind of ruins the best part of using the UC1. And does anyone know if SSL plans to make an aax dsp version of their plugins?
UC1 will only work on those Native tracks. I personally switched to the Brainworx SSL plug-ins since they run in DSP mode as well. I love the SSL ChannelStrip but
the convenience of being able to run the Brainworx ones in DSP mode far outweighs the ability of using the UC1 for me. I have all the Brainworx Channelstrips (SSL G/E/J,Neve and Amek9099).

I have had a love hate relation ship with control surfaces since the original Mackie HUI. I have owned the HUI,Procontrol,D-Comand and Avid Artist.
I never liked how any of them implemented Plug-in control so I always just end up using them as fader controllers. I tried the UC1 and it really is nice but takes up way to much desk real estate for controlling only 1 Plug-in.
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  #3  
Old 09-28-2021, 03:33 PM
alberti1 alberti1 is offline
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Default Re: Some prepurchase questions

Hi digiot, thank you for answering my questions. I’m definitely keeping my 1248. I tested the AVB on it yesterday and I was getting 9.4 ms roundtrip at 64 buffer size. I hope the Carbon can do better but it’s ok if it doesn’t, I’ll still have the 1248 in Thunderbolt for my Digital Performer projects. Plus, the 1248 will give me 16 more ins on the Carbon, ADATx2.

Are there any standalone capabilities? If I find the Carbon’s pres are way better than the Symphony’s pres, can I lightpipe the Carbon into the 1248 and still use the Carbons pres and the variable Z when tracking in DP?

I sure hope that the SSL UC1 plugins get an AAX DSP version. I think the UC1 is great. I would just use the Channel Strip 2 exclusively for all my channel strip needs. I wonder if NI, Line6, or Waves will ever go AAX DSP. Headrush should make an AAX DSP version and give us updated Eleven tones.

Last edited by alberti1; 09-28-2021 at 04:53 PM. Reason: misspelled name
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  #4  
Old 09-30-2021, 07:25 AM
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K Roche K Roche is offline
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Default Re: Some prepurchase questions

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Originally Posted by alberti1 View Post
Are there any standalone capabilities? If I find the Carbon’s pres are way better than the Symphony’s pres, can I lightpipe the Carbon into the 1248 and still use the Carbons pres and the variable Z when tracking in DP?
I don't use ADAT but I assume since the ADAT on the Carbon is both Input and Output , it seems you should be able to send Carbons ADAT's out to the 1248. But you could also just use the Carbon and record directly to DP and skip ADAT and the 1248 altogether

Don't have a Symphony either But I am "guessing" there will be little noticeable difference and would be negligible as far as the pre's themselves. The converters on the Carbon (may) provide a bit more head room, but that's only a guess, and again the question is,,,, would it really be noticeable ?
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  #5  
Old 09-30-2021, 07:59 AM
digiot digiot is offline
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Default Re: Some prepurchase questions

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Originally Posted by K Roche View Post
I don't use ADAT but I assume since the ADAT on the Carbon is both Input and Output , it seems you should be able to send Carbons ADAT's out to the 1248. But you could also just use the Carbon and record directly to DP and skip ADAT and the 1248 altogether

Don't have a Symphony either But I am "guessing" there will be little noticeable difference and would be negligible as far as the pre's themselves. The converters on the Carbon (may) provide a bit more head room, but that's only a guess, and again the question is,,,, would it really be noticeable ?
Carbon is not really meant to be used "standalone" so all the routing needs to be done from within Protools. Not even sure if you can re-route analog to ADAT from within the Audio/MIDI application!?
But I agree that in the past 5 years or so converters started sounding pretty much alike.
In the end its all relative, you can track in to an $10.000 Prizm with a $50 Behringer MicPre and still sound like ass or use the "stock" converter on your interface with a Neve or API MicPre and sound great.
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  #6  
Old 09-30-2021, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Some prepurchase questions

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Originally Posted by digiot View Post
Carbon is not really meant to be used "standalone" so all the routing needs to be done from within Protools. Not even sure if you can re-route analog to ADAT from within the Audio/MIDI application!?
But I agree that in the past 5 years or so converters started sounding pretty much alike.
In the end its all relative, you can track in to an $10.000 Prizm with a $50 Behringer MicPre and still sound like ass or use the "stock" converter on your interface with a Neve or API MicPre and sound great.
Well as I said I don't use ADAT so I am just speculating and do not know about the routing of ADAT. But since you can have PT and another DAW open at the same time, it seems it could be possible ? Just a guess....

But :::: I think the more important question is why not just go from the Carbon direct into DP ???
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  #7  
Old 10-01-2021, 09:05 AM
alberti1 alberti1 is offline
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Default Re: Some prepurchase questions

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But :::: I think the more important question is why not just go from the Carbon direct into DP ???
Well, it would seem I would get less latency using the MOTU 1248 connected via thunderbolt, with the Carbonís ADAT into the 1248. I could then use the Carbonís pres with thunderbolts low latency. I just tried this with the Apogee Symphony Desktop over ADAT into the 1248, and although it worked, it just seemed like it was more trouble than it was worth. Iím just trying to prepare myself for any disappointing AVB performance while using other DAWs with the Carbon. I canít find solid numbers for Carbonís latency when in native or using other DAWs. I hear that itís 8 Ė 12ms RTL with 32 buffer at 48k. You start chaining plugins together and the latency adds up quick.

But I have a backup plan. I can track all my guitars using my Helix, Headrush or Eleven Rack, and track all my drums and synths/instruments/samples with my Kronos, latency would be a non-issue. I can always swap out the external midi stuff with VIs during mixing. Iíll be able to test all this out once I receive my Carbon. Itís definitely on the slow boat from China, or should I say the slow truck from Fort Wayne, IN.
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  #8  
Old 10-01-2021, 10:11 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Some prepurchase questions

Just my 2 cents(so please take it that way), for Pro Tools, Avid hardware is great(and maybe tough to beat). For other DAW's, I would not be leaning toward Avid hardware
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  #9  
Old 10-02-2021, 06:25 AM
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Default Re: Some prepurchase questions

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Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
Just my 2 cents(so please take it that way), for Pro Tools, Avid hardware is great(and maybe tough to beat). For other DAW's, I would not be leaning toward Avid hardware
I agree especially Carbon , unless you are going to use PT as your primary recording and mixing DAW and Carbon for it's DSP I don't see the point ??

As far as Native use it seems interfaces with TB 3 connections are going to be more universal in integration and give somewhat faster latency performance
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Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2021.6 .....Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen processor,,128GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory,,2TB SSD storage,,Radeon Pro 5700 XT with 16GB of GDDR6 memory,, on Catalina 10.15.7

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding" Albert Einstein

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.... Kev...
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  #10  
Old 10-02-2021, 08:18 AM
alberti1 alberti1 is offline
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Default Re: Some prepurchase questions

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Originally Posted by K Roche View Post
I agree especially Carbon , unless you are going to use PT as your primary recording and mixing DAW and Carbon for it's DSP I don't see the point ??

As far as Native use it seems interfaces with TB 3 connections are going to be more universal in integration and give somewhat faster latency performance
Thanks albee1952 and thank you Kev for all your insight both on the DUC and that other forum. I should receive my Carbon on Monday and Iím really trying to decide if itís the right choice before I open the box. Iíve bounced around to a lot of different DAWs in the last 2 decades. Every time there was a new upgrade, Iíd try it out. So Iíve wasted a lot of time and energy looking for the right DAW. Digital Performer was the closest thing to Pro Tools that Iíve use and it also has a great midi sequencer. But my fondest memory of all was using my Digi001 and Pro Tools 5. At that time, I could only dream of having a TDM system. Now, I have a chance to use DSP with the flagship version of PT for only 4k. Not to mention all the other great features of the Carbon. Iím strongly considering using PT exclusively and once the year is up for my Ultimate perpetual license, thatís where Iíll stay. Iíll always have DP for when PTís midi doesnít cut it.

Kev, youíve had your Carbon for a while, how do you like it? Please give me the pros and cons. I really need to decide in the next 48 hours.

Thanks for all you help.
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