Recording levels? -18dbs

[DementedLegacy]

So I keep reading that when your recording your vocals into a DAW in my case Protools 12 that you should be recording at -18dbs and not going over -12dbs.
So should I turn on my -10 on my audient id22 interface? Or turn on my -18dbs on my AKG c414 XL II? Or just turn down my mic level on my audient? I tried that once and the vocal signal going into Protools was very quiet, should I turn the instrumental down as well? I record over 2 tracks.

Any help will be much appreciated

[JFreak]

It all comes down to numbers. If you have a high-end AD converter it probably has 120-124dB dynamics (check the spec!) which means, assuming you record to fixed-point 24bit WAV file, you have theoretically 144dB available. Which means you have 20dB headroom and if you record higher than that you are only making low-level noise more audible.

So target your peaks to -20dBFS and turn up the monitoring volume.

Why? Because at the 0..-10dBFS area your AD converter might not be as clean and linear as you would expect. Peak meters also sometimes miss very fast transients, which may clip your converter if you record too hot. Better stay out of that 0..-10dBFS if you can. And why couldn't you, now that you know this little secret

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by DementedLegacy

Or just turn down my mic level on my audient? I tried that once and the vocal signal going into Protools was very quiet

Yes, and turn the monitoring level up. If other tracks are too loud, turn them down. This is called mixing...

[DementedLegacy]

Originally Posted by JFreak

It all comes down to numbers. If you have a high-end AD converter it probably has 120-124dB dynamics (check the spec!) which means, assuming you record to fixed-point 24bit WAV file, you have theoretically 144dB available. Which means you have 20dB headroom and if you record higher than that you are only making low-level noise more audible.

So target your peaks to -20dBFS and turn up the monitoring volume.

Why? Because at the 0..-10dBFS area your AD converter might not be as clean and linear as you would expect. Peak meters also sometimes miss very fast transients, which may clip your converter if you record too hot. Better stay out of that 0..-10dBFS if you can. And why couldn't you, now that you know this little secret

Thank you for the quick reply! But when you say monitoring volume what do you mean exactly? So just leave the interface -10 option and mic settings alone and just turn down the mic input on the interface until it hits -20? Then also turn down the 2track? Sorry still learning

[JFreak]

turn down mic gain and turn up the volume knob, the same one you have on your living room system -- that's why it is there for.

[Matt Hepworth]

No, leave the interface at +4dBu. -10dBV is for interfacing with consumer gear.

EDIT: my reply is irrelevant. I misread the question.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by DementedLegacy

-18dbs on my AKG c414 XL II

That -18 on the mic is a pad to lower the output of the mic when recording overly loud audio.

[Wireline]

Understanding the difference between volume and gain would really be helpful.

[JuanPC]

Mic-pres have a personality...
If you set -18dB on the mic, you need +18dB on the mic-pre to sound as loud.

But that extra gain, will be more mic-pre gain coloration, than mic coloration... Assuming you are recording the same source, not a louder source.

Also, if you have a separate mic-pre and a separate AD converter, setting gain levels on one or the other can change how it sounds.

More mic-pre "sound", more AD "sound".
Same recording, with same level can sound different.

Most AD analog circuits are designed to be "as clean as possible", but ones are cleaner/better than others...
most built-in mic-pres, are designed to be as decent as possible with the lowest budget as possible, most on the "clean" side.

For some music styles clean = dull, clean = boring.
For other music genres clean is absolutely mandatory.

If you add more digital gain, instead of analog gain, "if you record very low," will also sound a bit different, most digital gains are designed to emulate analog gains personality, phase change, harmonic coloration, etc...

All comes down to personal taste... Do tests, record very hot, & record very low, try different analog & digital gain to match levels "so the loudest recorded peak is as closest as possible to 0dBFS."

Some mastering engineers like to clip the AD converter instead of using digital peak limiters, some AD converters sound interesting when clipping, red is not always bad.

Some AD converters have a built-in soft limit or soft saturation, or tape emulation...

In the old days setting the perfect recording level was very important to minimize noise floor/increase the signal to noise ratio, but with digital recording, recording at almost any level will give a decent noise floor always...
Gain Now is more an artistic expression, a flavor, a personal taste more than anything else, sugar & salt.
For example:
If AD converter gain sounds horrible, use the minimum gain setting, and set the mic & mic-pre at loudest gain setting, to minimize the influence of the AD gain stage in the signal path.
If AD gain sounds better than Mic-Pre gain, use the loudest AD gain setting and the lowest mic-pre gain setting possible without affecting noise floor much to minimize the influence of the mic-pre in the signal path.
If all analog gains sound horrible in your signal path, use digital gain, try different.
Etc...
if your mic-pre is built-in to you AD converter, Try different digital gain plugins vs. analog gain, etc...

Depending on your outboard equipment, settings & results will be different.

[JFreak]

The previous post would have a point in 16bit era, as in 20 years ago.

You should NEVER aim to hit 0dBFS if your session is 24-bit fixed-point or 32-bit floating-point -- this is simply put bad advise.

Unless you really like that AD distortion/nonlinearity what usually happens 0..-10dBFS, AD conversion should not have "sound". So take the numbers for what it is (144dB minus your AD dynamic range = headroom) and stay on the safe side.

Other than that, the post has valid points. Sometimes you want to drive it before AD and sometimes use a plugin -- whatever sounds right -- but still, you gain nothing id you record hotter than your AD dynamic range allows, rather, on the opposite.


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