MIDI Editing PT8

[Crank1000]

So I've been trying to get used to editing MIDI in PT8, and I just don't understand the benefit here. I get that there's a MIDI editor now, which is supposed to replace Edit Window editing, but why reduce functionality in the Edit window?

Here's my beef: Create an instrument track, and record some midi.
Now create an audio track and import a drum track.
Now try to line up the MIDI notes to the drum track (assuming the drum track is not perfectly to the grid). What used to be a one click edit is now a several click edit with scrolling, and modifier keys, and tool changes. Before, I could just use the smart tool, move my midi note regardless of where it is in the track, and continue with my work. Now, I have to switch the MIDI track to note view, which for no apparent reason changes the view of the notes to the smallest possible size, and completely out of view, so now I have to scroll the MIDI notes back into view, change to the hand tool, move the note (and hope new notes aren't created...bug???) and then switch back to my smart tool to continue editing how I was. Is that REALLY a benefit to anyone? Again, I understand we have a MIDI editor now, but that is of no use to me when I'm using both MIDI tracks AND audio tracks that aren't lined up to a grid. I get that the MIDI editor adds functionality, but I have yet to need anything it has to offer, and am constantly frustrated by the new implementation of Edit Window MIDI editing. Just me??

[gdugan]

I'm not sure I understand the problem. MIDI editing in the Edit window is the same as it was in version 7. You should still be able to do everything the same as you did before.

[Crank1000]

Originally Posted by gdugan

I'm not sure I understand the problem. MIDI editing in the Edit window is the same as it was in version 7. You should still be able to do everything the same as you did before.

Not even close. Instrument tracks default to region view instead of note view. Note sizes and location are constantly reset when changing to note view, and the smart tool cannot move a MIDI note if it is in the top half of a MIDI track. It must be in the bottom half. And for some reason clicking twice with the smart tool now creates new MIDI notes, and sometimes, when it creates the one (which is expected behavior, I gather) it will create a second one somewhere completely unrelated to the note just created.

[Trazan]

Originally Posted by Crank1000

and the smart tool cannot move a MIDI note if it is in the top half of a MIDI track.

It can here on this PT8 of mine

Why not make a selection over the place you want to edit (audio and instrument track) and press "E". You'll zoom in and go to "notes" view in one go (height of the selection is set in preferences).

[Crank1000]

Originally Posted by Trazan

It can here on this PT8 of mine

Why not make a selection over the place you want to edit (audio and instrument track) and press "E". You'll zoom in and go to "notes" view in one go (height of the selection is set in preferences).

Are you using the Smart tool or the grabber? Are you in the MIDI Editor or the traditional Edit Window? I have been trying this every time I use Pro Tools. What makes your rig different?

I'll try using E when I get home today. I suspect key focus needs to be on correct? That will mess me up even more. What's the non-key focus shortcut? Also, we're still talking about extra clicks here, and also focusing on only 2 tracks. My example was greatly simplified for the sake of understanding, but if I have a full drumkit, and a bass line, and I'm trying to find a comfortable timing in between a kick drum and a bass note now we're talking about something I suspect "E" won't cover. I just want to grab a note after I record it, and move it. I shouldn't have to change views, tools, and track sizes to do this. I never had to before. PT would always default the track view to center on the MIDI notes that were just recorded, and would be in note view, and I could grab them with the smart tool.

[gdugan]

After switching to Notes view, press Option-A. This will bring all notes into view.

I don't know why you have to change to the Grabber tool to move notes. The smart tool works fine here for selecting and moving notes.

If you are using audio and MIDI tracks that are not lined up to a grid, you may want to look into "Identify Beat," Beat Detective, and/or Elastic Audio to conform audio tracks to a grid, and compressing/stretching MIDI regions (in region view) to snap them to a grid. Maybe doing these things this will make moving all those MIDI notes unnecessary.

[Crank1000]

Originally Posted by gdugan

After switching to Notes view, press Option-A. This will bring all notes into view.

I don't know why you have to change to the Grabber tool to move notes. The smart tool works fine here for selecting and moving notes.

If you are using audio and MIDI tracks that are not lined up to a grid, you may want to look into "Identify Beat," Beat Detective, and/or Elastic Audio to conform audio tracks to a grid, and compressing/stretching MIDI regions (in region view) to snap them to a grid. Maybe doing these things this will make moving all those MIDI notes unnecessary.

Ok, we're still talking about 2-3 more steps just to move a MIDI note. And I still don't understand how both of my computers are the only computers in the world that can't grab a MIDI note in the top half of the track. I suspect I'm just not explaining myself right...

And I am well versed in Identify Beat and Elastic Audio and the like. Not everything in the world should be quantized to a grid....As much as Digi may want it to be.

[Trazan]

Originally Posted by Crank1000

And I am well versed in Identify Beat and Elastic Audio and the like. Not everything in the world should be quantized to a grid....As much as Digi may want it to be.

No offense, but I'm not sure you are. Since you want to line up midi to recorded audio, you can just make a grid from your recorded drums, with all their sloppiness or feel and whatnot....then quantize, and your midi will snap to your drums.

[flommer]

Instrument tracks default to region view instead of note view.

True

Note sizes and location are constantly reset when changing to note view

False. It seems to toggle between all notes visible (in region view) and what ever midi track height setting you set while in notes view.

the smart tool cannot move a MIDI note if it is in the top half of a MIDI track. It must be in the bottom half.

False. In note view, smart tool always selects the note and allows it to be moved (changes to the pointy finger aka grabber)

clicking twice with the smart tool now creates new MIDI notes

True. Haven't noticed the extra note phenomenon.. Sounds almost like your mouse might be freaking out and giving you extra clicks??


Also:

In keyboard focus, "e" = zoom toggle. Will not necessarily take you to the zoom / view you want. There are a few settings in preferences that could get you there.

"<Option> A" is "Vertical zoom to show all tracks"... Don't know how that's helpful...

"<control>-" will toggle between notes and regions. In keyboard focus, just "-"

Something seems screwy with your rig... If you can figure out why your smart tool is not working correctly in notes view, then you can avoid the "irritant" of having to switch to notes view if you start with a template with a bunch of MIDI and Inst tracks set to how you like them.

Have you done any of the usual delete preferences/databases stuff?

[Crank1000]

Originally Posted by Trazan

No offense, but I'm not sure you are. Since you want to line up midi to recorded audio, you can just make a grid from your recorded drums, with all their sloppiness or feel and whatnot....then quantize, and your midi will snap to your drums.

Trust me, I am. Sometimes, the whole session doesn't need to line up perfectly to the drumkit (besides, as I said before that was just an example). I am aware that I can make the grid follow the drums. This isn't my first bbq. I'm just asking a simple question. I don't need workarounds that take 10 times longer than legacy behavior. The best advice you have to move a midi note is to change the entire grid of a session? Come on.

Here's another example, if I'm doing sound design, and I need to line up a door closing sample to a door latching sample. Am I going to quantize my session to the door latch sample so I can then quantize my door closing sample to that? Seriously guys, workflow should get easier with every version, not harder. After 8 versions of PT, MIDI notes should move themselves (obviously exaggerating), but here I am, forever clicking through tools, views, windows, and quick keys to do what should be a simple drag and drop operation.