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  #1  
Old 07-18-2001, 03:00 PM
el biciclista el biciclista is offline
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Default BTD only way to convert to 44.1M sample rate?

I am trying to burn my 1st CD. Based on other threads on this forum, I have tried to do this while avoiding using: (1) PT faders, (2) PT busses, and (3) bounce to disk (BTD).

I used Waves plug-ins on individual audio tracks for automated fader volume control. Once happy with the mix, I sent the individual tracks out via optical cable to a Yamaha 01v mixer bus and back, and recorded to a single audio track.

Then I imported this audio file into another ProTools session. I drug the file into an audio track and inserted C4, S1, and L1 on this track. I then sent this out to the 01v mixer bus and back to another audio track. I controlled volume with C4 (eq already done earlier on individual tracks), used S1 for stereo enhancement (width=1.2, shuffle=2.0, frequency=700) and set up L1 for the final audio file (16-bit, type 1, ultra).

I thought I was ready to burn the CD....but I forgot the 48M-to-44.1M sample rate conversion. I couldn't find any way to accomplish this except bouncing to disk.

So, I deleted the 2nd audio track and added a master fader track. I moved C4, S1, and L1 from the audio track to the master fader track (although I don't think I needed to do this; I could have just left them on the 1st audio track...right?????), put the master fader on the optical out interface, and BTDed the track (16-bit, 44.1 sample rate, convert after bounce). Then I burned the CD from the BTD file.

Is there a way to convert to 44.1 while avoiding bouncing to disk?

Also, if I am doing something terribly dumb with this procedure, please tell me. This is my first try, so I REALLY welcome suggestions.

BTW, man, was I hit by how much the quality goes down after the conversion. The tracks sounded SO good before conversion to CD requirements. How discouraging.

Thanks!
Mike
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Old 07-18-2001, 03:12 PM
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Park Seward Park Seward is offline
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Default Re: BTD only way to convert to 44.1M sample rate?

I believe you can convert the entire session by "copying session" and selecting the sampling rate.


Why are you going to all the trouble of an external mixer? Why not use the power of ProTools?

I would suggest that the conversion, if properly done, will not be a problem with your material. Did you use Good, Beter or Best in the conversion step?
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Old 07-18-2001, 03:56 PM
Slim Shady Slim Shady is offline
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Default Re: BTD only way to convert to 44.1M sample rate?

2 things I would recommend:

Why are you avoiding the bounce to disk? Is it because of the reported 'center panning' ducker? I believe this only applies to mono files that are being bounced down to a stereo pair, but I could be wrong. Anyway, there's really no reason not to do it, if there is indeed any loss in quality, I personally don't find it noticeable, nor have I noticed a loss in volume from any of my bounced mixes.

Secondly, you probably should avoid using the 48khz sampling frequency alltogether if your final destination for your files is a CD. The conversion from 48khz to 44.1khz will degrade your track more than any bounce to disk ever will, and the additional 2khz of frequency you get isn't worth the effort. Stick with a 44.1khz rate for all your sessions you plan on putting on a CD, and you'll be better off in the end. Definately work with the 24 bit setting and dither to 16 bit when you master though, the dynamic gains make a mountain of difference.

peace,
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Old 07-18-2001, 04:07 PM
lwilliam lwilliam is offline
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Default Re: BTD only way to convert to 44.1M sample rate?

The least destructive way I've found to convert from 48K to 44.1 is to go through one analog conversion (usually to DAT), but a couple tracks on an ADAT will also work in a pinch - especially if you have upgraded converters.

SRC has never sounded even half-decent to me. I can just barely notice the single DA/AD conversion. Then you can bring it back in digitally at 44.1 for your CD burn. Just trim the file. Try to do all your "mastering" type stuff at 24-bits (and dither to 16-bits) so the only thing left to do after the analog transfer is turn it into an aiff (or sdii) file and burn it to CD.
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Old 07-18-2001, 04:08 PM
el biciclista el biciclista is offline
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Default Re: BTD only way to convert to 44.1M sample rate?

Park,
Thanks! I will take a look at the "copy session" command tonight when I get in the studio. I haven't even seen that command. Sounds like that may do it for me.

I am doing what I am doing only because some guys on this forum feel very strongly that the PT busses, PT faders, and BTD degrade audio quality. If you look through those threads, you will see that others think this is a lot of hooey. My thought was that it is just as easy to do what I did as to use the PT busses, faders, and BTD. And if there is any substance to the arguments, then I have taken the safest approach. Maybe that's not right, but at least you know my logic....right or wrong.

Thanks again! I'll give your suggestion a try.
Mike
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Old 07-18-2001, 04:18 PM
el biciclista el biciclista is offline
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Default Re: BTD only way to convert to 44.1M sample rate?

Slim,
Thanks for the info on using 44.1M from recording on. I just assumed that I would be better off with the higher sample rate until the final step to CD. You are saying that starting with 48M, then converting to 44.1M, gives you poorer audio quality than just to start at 44.1M to begin with?

If that's the case, then I will definitely just start out at 44.1M on all future recordings, since all my songs are likely going only to CD.

Thanks!
Mike
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Old 07-19-2001, 06:42 AM
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Park Seward Park Seward is offline
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Default Re: BTD only way to convert to 44.1M sample rate?

You have received the correct advice about recording at 44.1 to start with if that is what you are going to finish with. Usually a small conversion is more difficult that a large one. 48 to 44.1 is small; 24 bits to 16 bits is large. Therefore, you will be better procession audio at 24 and then downconverting to 16 for CD.
Digital mixers do not change the sound quality if they only mix. Your mixer is doing the same thing to the sound as the internal ProTools mixer.

For the movie "Traffic", Larry Blake used the internal mixers in ProTools to mix the movie. The movie was entirelly mixed INSIDE ProTools. No external mixers were used.

Don't believe everything someone tells you. If you listen, you'll hear no problems with the internal mixer in ProTooils.
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  #8  
Old 07-19-2001, 10:12 AM
Jorge442 Jorge442 is offline
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Default Re: BTD only way to convert to 44.1M sample rate?

Definitely record to 44.1. Converting 48k to 44.1 does not sound good not matter what setting you have selected. Even when my source is a 48k DAT, I´d rather use the analog inputs....I´ve heard of the big boys recording 24 bit/48k, but they have extremely expensive converters and I do not.

BTW, I have no problems with bounce to disk whatsoever. What´s the big deal?

Jorge
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2001, 03:26 PM
el biciclista el biciclista is offline
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Default Re: BTD only way to convert to 44.1M sample rate?

Park,
Thanks for the good advice.
MIke
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