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  #1  
Old 11-02-2022, 12:15 PM
SlickSlack SlickSlack is offline
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Default Field Recorder Workflow with Live PT sessions as Field Recordings

Hi
I want to be able to assemble a PT session from 7 source PT sessions of live records. Cut with a temp track in AVID, export an AAF of temp track, assemble new PT session using all tracks from 7 original PT sessions.
i.e. like the field recorder workflow, but using live PT sessions as source.
What software out there can do this?

Details
7 concerts (15 acts, 1 or 2 songs each) over 7 days, 1 ProTools session per concert, 128trks.
Will be cut in AVID using temp mix from each session.
1 track AAF of concert sound from locked cut.

Goal
Assemble 128 trk session of concert sound in final show from each of 7 sessions based on AAF.
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2022, 03:34 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: Field Recorder Workflow with Live PT sessions as Field Recordings

Important question #1 has this already been cut?

Important question #2 are they relying on each PT session's timecode to sync?

Important question #3 do you have a good assistant?

There are a lot of variables at play in this situation. When there's one concert in one timeline it's fairly straightforward. Different days in different sessions complicate it with PT. It's hard to know what to advise without more info. Are you familiar with EdiLoad?
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  #3  
Old 11-03-2022, 04:40 AM
SlickSlack SlickSlack is offline
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Default Re: Field Recorder Workflow with Live PT sessions as Field Recordings

#1 No it has not been cut yet. Assistants building projects now.

#2 Everything has the same TC. Master clock fed all devices and PT sessions.

#3 Yes, two assistants.

All my research now pointing to Ediload. A brief detour to Matchbox but I see that now as a change conform tool and unless there’s a clever trick to make that work it isn’t the right tool.
At the moment I see it as:
Lock cut. Prep AAF - split concert tracks from intvw field recording tracks.
AAF for concert footage applied to Day1 in Ediload. Assemble Day 1.
Repeat for Day 2-5 in their own sessions.
Import sessions Day 1-5 into session made from AAF for non-concert material.
Mutter an exhausted “ta da!”
There’s a lot to be tested and worked out in that process but that is the direction I am heading.
Curious if anyone has better idea or refinement guidance.
Tx.
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  #4  
Old 11-03-2022, 05:24 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: Field Recorder Workflow with Live PT sessions as Field Recordings

Do all 7 source sessions have redundant timecode from each day? Meaning was there a record at 1pm on day 1 and also on day 2, etc, etc, Did you sync to TOD TC for each day or was it different for each day?

Pro Tools is a terrible tool for field recording. Not much metadata is stored in the record files for EdiLoad to go off of. You basically will only have the name of the files, TC, Sample rate, bit depth, and date of record. You will not have take numbers, scene numbers, etc. if any of that matters to you when you’re editing the picture.

Where/How was this stereo reference file generated that you’re cutting with? Is this something that was sent to the cameras during recording or recorded within pro tools? If so, you’re going to have very limited metadata to work with for ediload to perform an assembly. You’ll basically have only two criteria to work with, Timecode and date. This should be enough in theory as long as the original TC of stereo reference stays intact and matches that of the source sessions but expect this to be a combination of manual assembly.

Are any of the song performances going to be edited in length?

There are a lot of questions here but the short answer is assembly will not be easy. I say this based off of mixing a two hour show recorded and edited the same way. I basically mixed the songs first and gave those to the editors to cut with so that they didn’t mess with timing. They’d sync up my temp song mix with their reference and cut away but even then there were issues because they would choose shots from multiple takes which were out of sync musically. If each of your songs were only performed once then hopefully this won’t be an issue, but multicam sync could be.

The problems started to occur with all of the in-between material, on camera interviews, talking heads, etc. The editors cut this with a reference track but when provided an AAF and EDL, nothing worked to assemble from the original source records. I had to do a manual assembly by looking at the original time stamp of the stereo reference and getting take sheets from production since the TOD TC was the same on any given day. I didn’t know which day’s Pro Tools sessions to pull from Hence my first question to you. It was a mess. Hopefully you’ll have better luck, but be prepared for the worst case scenario.

Good Luck.
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  #5  
Old 11-03-2022, 06:24 AM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: Field Recorder Workflow with Live PT sessions as Field Recordings

Doing it manually is why I asked about an assistant . Have you done a manual conform before? It's not complicated but time consuming.

Assembling one session at a time sounds ideal but as its2loud said PT doesn't give a whole lot of useful metadata when used as a recorder. You'll have name, date, and TC.

I would look into using EdiLoad to clean the EDL's IF you can figure out the best way to do that to end up with one day per EDL. Depends how linear the cut is and the complexity.

Again this will be tricky and likely a combination of auto and manual conform. Get involved with the edit team to work out details. Do a test run with one session if there's time.
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  #6  
Old 11-03-2022, 10:34 AM
Klosse Klosse is offline
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Default Re: Field Recorder Workflow with Live PT sessions as Field Recordings

You could embed additional metadata into the files that your source Pro Tools sessions are using. Here´s what I would do:

Get the free Wave Agent by Sound Devices (or any other app that allows for BWF metadata editing)

1. Add in tape (soundroll) metadata for all the files in your recorded sessions. It could be the date of the recording day.

2. Add the same corresponding tape metadata to your temp mixes used for cutting.

3. The editor cuts the project (check that the tape/soundroll field in the editing application shows correct metadata)

4. Get AAF from the editor.

5. Use Ediload to create the field recorder conform track(s).

6. Use the normal PT field recorder workflow to create your final mix session.

Edit: I´m not sure if Pro Tools embeds Start TC in recorded files. But this workflow only works if Pro Tools does that.

-Klosse

Last edited by Klosse; 11-03-2022 at 10:43 AM. Reason: Clarification
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  #7  
Old 11-03-2022, 03:41 PM
SlickSlack SlickSlack is offline
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Default Re: Field Recorder Workflow with Live PT sessions as Field Recordings

Klosse,
I did an early test with WaveAgent and the Field Recorder Workflow but didn't pursue it fully. One thing I couldn't work out is how it ordered the tracks when it expanded the one track to the whole folder of tracks. I don't know if the track number is/can be stored anywhere in the files themselves or is it only in the ProTools session.
If I went down this path I would have to ensure that the track order was. something other than simply alphabetical by filename.
The Field Recorder workflow is my backstop workflow if I can't get something more efficient and elegant to work.
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  #8  
Old 11-03-2022, 07:38 PM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: Field Recorder Workflow with Live PT sessions as Field Recordings

No, it does not store track order in the metadata. The only way to retain track order is by file name or AAF.
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2022, 05:28 AM
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mfranken mfranken is offline
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Default Re: Field Recorder Workflow with Live PT sessions as Field Recordings

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickSlack View Post
Hi
I want to be able to assemble a PT session from 7 source PT sessions of live records. Cut with a temp track in AVID, export an AAF of temp track, assemble new PT session using all tracks from 7 original PT sessions.
I'm going to assume that the PT system was locked to picture sync and the PT system was running at the correct speed to stay in sync with the pictures.

When you create a mix or bounce of each session in PT, make sure it starts on a frame edge and name it as per the session number or date. When these are loaded into MC, make sure the files are loaded with the correct timestamp (WAV start). Then when you have completed the edit, you can export an AAF containing this mix track and load it into EdiLoad. Remove all events in EdiLoad that don't relate to these session mix tracks. Set the Roll Name from the Clip Name as an ID to which session each event relates to. Then filter the list by Roll Name selecting the events for the first session and reconform this session with these events. Got through each session reconforming it with the events for that session. Then build a master session and import the reconformed clips from each session into it.

The following blog post contains a video that shows you how to cut down 12 episodes of Dx, Fx and Mx to create a feature film sound track, and is basically what you need to on your job:

Reversioning Pro Tools mixes with EdiLoad

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Mark
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Dialogue editor/supervisor IMDb
Creator of 'EDI' applications for sound post editors
www.soundsinsync.com
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2022, 05:45 AM
njrsound njrsound is offline
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Default Re: Field Recorder Workflow with Live PT sessions as Field Recordings

We do quite a few of these and have a simpler workflow than some folks are suggesting here. 192 channels recorded to Pro Tools, multiple shows being filmed then edited down to a single program, with musical numbers interspersed with interviews, BTS etc. It probably won't help the OP in this case, but it all revolves around the separate capture/shoot concerts being filmed with non-overlapping Time Code - ie: the first concert starts at 3hrs, the second at 6hrs, the third at 9hrs etc, allowing the final program to be assembled starting at 01hrs. Shoot Date or other metadata is irrelevant. In each PT 'shoot' session, we make a clip group of all tracks of that whole show. Then we make a 'conform' session and import the clip group for each show, spotting each at its original TC start time (matching the picture edit source TC), then un-grouping them. The Audio Files stay in their Shoot-day Session folders. Then all we need to assemble the Concert footage to match the picture edit is a basic EDL from the picture edit, and EdiLoad. The trick is we are using EdiLoad as if we were doing a RE-conform rather than an initial assembly (aka 'conform'). There is no use of Field Recorder workflow, all the tracks are already in the session - EdiLoad is just moving the selected chunks of 192 tracks from their original TC position as shot, down to their position in the finished program. Obviously there's then decisions to be made about using the audio that matches the vision source or some better take - typically reducing the number of cuts to the audio. Once this is done, we can then import an AAF from the editor with all the audio from non-performance segments of the final program such as Interviews, and also the stereo guide mix of the concert material - useful for fine sync check / nudging, or to recognise a major conform error.
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