PT and Sample Rounding WILL cause Issues when Copying

[25ghosts]

I have posted a thread previous about this IMO very important matter.

Lets say we have a 2 bar loop and duplicate that 300 times... Every dup. will receive a negative delay of 1 sample and thus be 1 sample shy of the next grid... THis multiplies. So if you dup. 300 times... the last region will start 300 samples earlier than the first region.... and the whole loop will just scoot into nirvana...

I dont know what sample rounding does exactly - but I cant see the point in having a state of the art ADC when I cant even copy a few regions without loosing timing.

I thought I was going mad - cuz I got the feeling that my timing was altering thru' the song...

Please digi - I dont wanna loose " THE FEEL" of a song because PT has to do some kind of "strange" technical thing... And I dont wanna hit "quantize to grid" every time I have copied a region. In addition I have to extend the region 1 sample EVERY TIME after copying to make it exactly 2 bars long.... Imagine the rounding would occur in the middle of a wave form ... Clip - would be the noise I would hear.

If sample rounding is soooooo important to the musical aspect then please explain WHY ---- or give us an option to turn it off if it aint a BUG...

THanks

[usd]

http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.p...Number=1018620

[blackmacdaddy]

Hi All,
For those who don't read through the 'intriguing' archived thread that USD was kind enough to reference, the crux is:

When working at a 'fixed tempo' in grid, only duplicate regions in TICK timebase using the REPEAT command (Opt/Alt + R) OR "sample rounding" affect your duplicates & regions will be off the grid by a number of samples (due to the math involved in 'sample based' audio VS. fixed tempo)

Also: Jeremy Roberts linked to a spreadsheet he created that listed tempos that have "perfect math" and will not be problematic for "sample rounding." However, this link is dead. If anyone has the spreadsheet I & my 'inner nerd' are interested in which Tempos/Tempi are 'mathematically perfect' at 44.100.

Best, Walt

PS: Sometimes my 'inner nerd' is lazy.

[25ghosts]

HI MacDaddy,

When working at a 'fixed tempo' in grid, only duplicate regions in TICK timebase using the REPEAT command (Opt/Alt + R) OR "sample rounding" affect your duplicates & regions will be off the grid by a number of samples (due to the math involved in 'sample based' audio VS. fixed tempo)

Sorry to be correcting you here - but this aint working EITHER.

Currently - There is NO WAY - of correcting this besides doing it manually (Cutting and prolonging EVERY Region yourself)

Thus, there is NO real way of working with loops correctly in PT. This is sad - very sad.


It does not matter whether you're in Tick or sample mode of your track - whether you use Duplicate, Repeat loop copy etc...

This here is a BUG - and it is a Major one if you ask me. I have read thru' the posts that USD supplied (thanks for that) and seeing how far this topic goes back surprises me unpleasantly. I cannot believe that digidesign has NOT dealt with this yet.

I am having a few moral issues "Trusting" PT when stuff like this happens.


It is as simple as this:

IF and application offers to copy or duplicate then it should be able to do so correctly ! BASTA

I dont wanna Copy with compromises. I have used Logic many years and I have not once NOT been able to maintain a steady timing thru out my song.


Digdesign - I have read your many replies and excuses in the other posts - So there is NO need writing them in this thread again. Please - have the decency to FINALLY get this problem Solved


Thanks You

[25ghosts]

Just for the record:

Lets say you have a kick or anything else for that matter starting exactly on sample 1 of the grid... It will just get it's beginning truncated ????


This is really really NON MUSICAL.

FIX FIX FIX - Please

[25ghosts]

Another thing and WORKAROUND.


If sample rounding is something that is supposed to happen then PLEASE explain this:

Workaround:

Select the region you would like to copy - Now loop it as many many times as you please:
You can even select the loop and the hit Consolidate - and you kicks or whatever in need of crucial timing - is sitting right where it is supposed to sit.

Woops - NO SAMPLEROUNDING occurring... Very strange - since sample rounding according to digi is something that is necessary. So which ONE has the BUG.

Loop = No Sample rounding (Which is not supposed to happen)
Duplication = Sample rounding (which IS Supposed to happen)

So - if duplication which causes sample rounding is NOT a bug - then Loop which is NOT causing sample rounding MUST be a BUG...


So - Digidesign | IT IS YOUR CHOICE - What's it gonna be ?

[KingFish]

Originally Posted by 25ghosts

Another thing and WORKAROUND.


If sample rounding is something that is supposed to happen then PLEASE explain this:

Workaround:

Select the region you would like to copy - Now loop it as many many times as you please:
You can even select the loop and the hit Consolidate - and you kicks or whatever in need of crucial timing - is sitting right where it is supposed to sit.

Woops - NO SAMPLEROUNDING occurring... Very strange - since sample rounding according to digi is something that is necessary. So which ONE has the BUG.

Loop = No Sample rounding (Which is not supposed to happen)
Duplication = Sample rounding (which IS Supposed to happen)

So - if duplication which causes sample rounding is NOT a bug - then Loop which is NOT causing sample rounding MUST be a BUG...


So - Digidesign | IT IS YOUR CHOICE - What's it gonna be ?

I can't believe this is STILL a problem in ProTools 9

[midnightrambler]

I use alt-r (for number of repeats) using samples timebase and then quantise the regions using apple-0. Is this bad.....? It's never bothered me, but maybe that's 'cause I have cloth ears.