ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??

[knewbee]

All I can say is - Wow...

Just yesterday I posted a separate topic in this forum asking for opinions on whether it made sense to dip into the wallet to make the switch to PT 6.x and OS X. I'm running a Mix3 system on OS 9.2.2 (G4 933) with 2 Rosetta 800's off an Adat bridge. And with regular Disk Warrior checks, I can say that (knock on wood), I am very, very stable.

That being said, I hate having to stop playback to add inserts and sends. I would love to have ADC. I had thought the Midi would be tighter in v6 of PT, but it seems that may not be the case. Beyond those couple of things - unless "in the box" mixes sound infinitely better - then based on this thread I am definitely just going to stay put. I never have artifacts in my audio now, and there are no unwanted clicks and pops. That would totally piss me off. And midi might not be super tight to the clock in 5.1.1, but I know what it can do, and how to do it quickly. Hmmm...

Anyway, thanks for helping to answer a question that I hadn't even asked here. If it ain't broke... don't spend thousands of dollars in upgrade costs "fixing" it... - Steve

[Mt.Everest]

That being said, I hate having to stop playback to add inserts and sends.

This is not as great as it seems. First, you geta significant break in audio when you insert a plugin. Some freeze up the system for a second, others for 5 seconds. And you cannot add sends on the fly-- only inserts, and poorly I might add.

I would love to have ADC. I had thought the Midi would be tighter in v6 of PT, but it seems that may not be the case. Beyond those couple of things - unless "in the box" mixes sound infinitely better - then based on this thread I am definitely just going to stay put. I never have artifacts in my audio now, and there are no unwanted clicks and pops. That would totally piss me off. And midi might not be super tight to the clock in 5.1.1, but I know what it can do, and how to do it quickly. Hmmm...

Anyway, thanks for helping to answer a question that I hadn't even asked here. If it ain't broke... don't spend thousands of dollars in upgrade costs "fixing" it... - Steve

ADC is cool, but for some reason I dont trust it. Its the cause of clicks and pops IN THE ACTUAL AUDIO FILES, and it just seems like still in its infant stage. And the midi is not tighter at all in PT6.
But yes, overall, my mixes do sound better, but its really cuz I think the A/D and clocking is better. SO yeah, HD on an 0S9 setup seems the way to go.

MT

[PastaViking II]

I can't believe this thread. My PT HD OSX system is probably more stable than OS9 ever was but at least just as stable. It's faster and has a number of features that make my life so much easier than OS9. I don't run soft synths on the Mac but I didn't do that on OS9 either. But maybe your G5 or you are at fault 'cause my Dual G4 simply rocks!

I've been using Digi since 442 and HD/PT 6.7 is the best system Digi's done EVER, period...

[Mt.Everest]

I can't believe this thread. My PT HD OSX system is probably more stable than OS9 ever was but at least just as stable. It's faster and has a number of features that make my life so much easier than OS9. I don't run soft synths on the Mac but I didn't do that on OS9 either. But maybe your G5 or you are at fault 'cause my Dual G4 simply rocks!

I've been using Digi since 442 and HD/PT 6.7 is the best system Digi's done EVER, period...

Well its definitely real. And I agree that it does have a number of all around useful features, but it is definitely less pro and productive than it used to be. And believe me, its not just my G5. I do alot of setups, everything from Single G4s to Dual G5s and its OSX that is the problem. Convert a Bounced file? FAST. No doubt, but thats just raw CPU cycles. Open windows, navigate in OSX--slow slow slow. Spends too much time rendering the stupid graphics.

Ever try clicking on a file in a folder set to 'view by date' that was just modified? Have fun chasing the moving file and opening the wrong file (argh!) cuz it takes 10 seconds for OSX to place the file in the correct hierarchy of modification. Sorry, but OSX is like a sluggish oaf with WAY to much fat around the edges, and a WOW factor designed as smoke and mirrors. Look at current Windowz XP design, and look at OSX. Same ol same. Designed for my mom to use, NOT professionals.

Anyway, dont get me wrong. I love alot about OSX/PT6. But when I look at bare bones production/engineering, its a big step backwards. I have been excited since the release of OSX to have EVERYTHING in the box, with fast DUAL processor Macs. But basically, all i can do now is what I could do 10 years ago. Record, edit, and mix music. No virtual instruments, no virtual samplers, no 3rd party sequencers running in the bgrnd reliably. Just a real stable recorder/editor/mixer that I have to look elsewhere for 90% of my production needs. PTs replaced tape, almost replaced everything else (not literally of course), and now forced me to dust off my K2500 Sampler, and replugg all my midi sound modules. Hey, I forgot how good this Kurzweil sounded!

MT

[John McDaniel]

[troll]

OS X Panther - 10 crashes a day
OS X Jaguar - 10 crashes a week
OS 9.2.2 - 10 crashes a year

[/troll]

[Drew Mazurek]

what OS is digi writing the code for PT with? XP or OSX? does anyone know? when did that change occur? coincidence? just a theory. and maybe their way of slowly making people migrate to XP.

[uno1234]

It's not the G5, I have a G4 1.25.

There's a lot of great things about OS X. Really. But it's just slow and unstable with Pro Tools. I've been using Pro Tools since version 3.2. And this is BY FAR the most unstable version. Sure, there are a ton of features since then. But this is a mess. Pro Tools has been diluted down into a consumer product at this point. It's very frustrating experience for those who rely on it 60 hours a week.

[Chief Technician]

Digidesign does development on the Macintosh.

Pro Tools is stable, very stable. I have nine (9) systems, all on OS X v10.3.4 with v6.4.1 software, and it is stable. Believe me, if there were a crash problem with Pro Tools, I would be the first complaining about it around here!

When we moved to OS X, we didn't have to change G4s. There may have been a slight performance hit with Jaguar, but that is negated by Panther (aka progress). The problem with the G5 is that you can't get as many voices as you can with a G4. Perhaps that will change as time goes by. Softsynths not working that well is sad, but I don't use them.

danickst wrote:

Digi is not even boasting about all the fixes that will happen with PT7. Another bad omen.

Digi doesn't generally brag about bug fixes unless its a serious fix. The last fix I can think of that fell into this category is the fade bug from v6.4.x. I hope more fixes are on the way, but the fixes I want aren't for crash bugs, because I don't have PT crashing. There is a reason for your crashes, but bashing Digidesign isn't going to fix them.

[fifty8th1]

to mt everest and others

When we went to OSX and 6.1 there were a few things that poped up. Very buggy stuff. No rolling ball or speed problems.
Cleaning up the Dual g4 and following digi's advice on the basics of a good clean Protools install and checking Library's did the trick.

We had done several OS upgrades since Jaguar and decided it was time to just do a CLEAN install and reinstall the latest 10.3 Panther install right from the getgo. OS9 still worked fine after doing 10.3.

The Mac is very stable .. This operating system if full of many programs ... Audio, Video, DVD. There are just some basics having to do with having plenty of memory, plenty of hard disk space...especially recording only on a clean empty drive. keeping Protools running from another hard drive other than the one recording audio. Operating systems can get dirty and need to be reintalled .. if things are crazy ...go do it.

jon
58Th Street Studio

[c-tone]

Ever try clicking on a file in a folder set to 'view by date' that was just modified? Have fun chasing the moving file and opening the wrong file (argh!) cuz it takes 10 seconds for OSX to place the file in the correct hierarchy of modification.
MT

Yes, I hate this too. How is it that I can click faster than the computer can move the list of files? I save and then close a session, then click on another session and boom!- right then the whole list shifts and it has clicked on the wrong file. Or, you accidentally double click on an audio file, and it goes through the tedious process of launching Pro Tools, only to tell you afterwards that the file is not a valid Pro Tools session file. Huh? Shouldn't it know that first, before launching Pro Tools?

How about when you have recorded a new file, and it won't show up in the audio files folder until you close the window and open it again? That alone is enough to cause a freak out. I mean the worst thing your computer can do is erase files - and the next worst is to make you think that the files that should be there aren't!

Also, the PT open file dialog boxes under Panther always steers you to "Documents" even when Pro Tools doesn't put them there. At least OS9 would remember where you last looked for items, as well as the way you sorted them. There are multitudes of features they lost with OSX.

However,

My system has been about as stable with OSX as it was with OS9, which is very good, especially compared to my old MixPlus system on a G3. I think it would be valuable for posters on this thread to list their setups. I am running an HD2 on a 933 G4, OS 10.3.4 and PT 6.4 and use loads of plug-ins and a few soft synths. I still get occasional crashes and have had one or two kernal panics total, but with auto save on, it hasn't really been a big issue.

I won't upgrade to 6.7 since I see so many people with issues. I held out on upgrading to OSX until about 6 months ago when I really needed some of the features that it had over OS9, which in my case were Beat Detective goove templates and Midi Time Stamping, which my specific project at the time called for. I will stick with the method of upgrading software only when I feel that it is really necessary if my system is stable at the time, and only after it seems that people are having luck with it. My computer is a few years old, but it still works fine, and I'm not about to mess with that. I have noticed that most of people having issues are on G5's and PT 6.7. Granted that this might be because that is really the latest up to date system, but I think that this combination seems to have way more than its share of problems.