Auditioning the 'next' phrase when Comping Tracks

[tha]-[acksaw]

I have a question for you savages in this thread... love it by the way!!!

When I track a vocalist, I use at least 5 track all going to the same bus with verb and/or eq. I will have the vocalist go through the song, or their part in a song, at least 5 times and sometimes more. So when I start comping I create a new track going to the same bus and then I start listening to the vocal recordings one phrase at a time. When I find the one I like I will highlight the section and then hit Ctrl E to sperate the region. After that I use the Windows Start Key and Alt to drag that region up to my comp, without removing it from its origional recording. I do this so I have a road map of where I was comping from, incase I wanna go back.

Here is the question. Is there a way that I can listen to my comp track and let it roll into the next phrase I wanna audition for comping? For instance, lets say I have picked the first phrase I wanna use, and then drag it up to my comp track. Now I wanna hear that phrase I picked as a pre roll to the next phrase I would need to choose. So I can hear how my comp is woking with the differnt options I have on the 5 recordings I did.

Thanks for the help. And sorry for the lame description!

Nick

[holden]

tha]-[acksaw -

Kenny Gioia has a relevant trick for this in the Comping Vocals section of his Pro Tools Tips & Tricks Vol 1. It requires that you keep your vocal takes as playlists on the same track, with a separate comp track. Out of respect for Kenny I'm not going to divulge his method, but owning both sets of his tutorials I can testify that they dwarf their price in value.

http://www.grooveboxmusic.com/str/pr...tricks-v1.html

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by tha]-[acksaw

I have a question for you savages in this thread... love it by the way!!!

When I track a vocalist, I use at least 5 track all going to the same bus with verb and/or eq. I will have the vocalist go through the song, or their part in a song, at least 5 times and sometimes more. So when I start comping I create a new track going to the same bus and then I start listening to the vocal recordings one phrase at a time. When I find the one I like I will highlight the section and then hit Ctrl E to sperate the region. After that I use the Windows Start Key and Alt to drag that region up to my comp, without removing it from its origional recording. I do this so I have a road map of where I was comping from, incase I wanna go back.

Here is the question. Is there a way that I can listen to my comp track and let it roll into the next phrase I wanna audition for comping? For instance, lets say I have picked the first phrase I wanna use, and then drag it up to my comp track. Now I wanna hear that phrase I picked as a pre roll to the next phrase I would need to choose. So I can hear how my comp is woking with the differnt options I have on the 5 recordings I did.

Thanks for the help. And sorry for the lame description!

Nick

Just put the comp track right above the track with all the takes.

Set them both to the same voice. Then you'll hear the previous "keeper" line go into all the new options.

Hope that helps.

[albee1952]

You are killing yourself by using 5 tracks. You should use 1 track and 5 playlists(do a pass, add new playlist and do another pass, repeat). Then set the track to show playlists(I add 1 more playlist and name it voc.comp). Solo the take you want to audition(and here's where I depart from Avid's normal method). I always hit stop before I solo the next take I want to hear(using the spacebar to start/stop is brutally simple here). The reason for this is, when you are listening to a take, and hit solo on another take, if play continues, it can take a few seconds before what you hear, is actually what you selected. By stopping and starting, you WILL always hear what is selected(solo'd). When you hear the take you like, whether its a word, a phrase or entire line, just highlight and hit the up arrow to promote to your comp. This may sound like a lot of work, but its quite easy and fast, as long as you avoid the tendency to do 16 takes(yes, I have a producer that insists on that! Fortunately, he knows how to comp in PT and takes over.....God bless him)

[scrnplyr]

(yes, I have a producer that insists on that! Fortunately, he knows how to comp in PT and takes over.....God bless him)

I always spend a few minutes with the brightest (least high) band member and show him 3 things on ProTools: 1. how to clean up dead (possibly noisy) air 2. How to do crossfades on edited clips 3. How to comp playlists

I usually do my version in advance and when he questions the comp track that I've cobbled together, I let him have at it while I play a few hours of Battlefield. They usually stagger in swearing never to question my authoritah i.e. comping skillz.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by albee1952

You are killing yourself by using 5 tracks. You should use 1 track and 5 playlists(do a pass, add new playlist and do another pass, repeat). Then set the track to show playlists(I add 1 more playlist and name it voc.comp). Solo the take you want to audition(and here's where I depart from Avid's normal method). I always hit stop before I solo the next take I want to hear(using the spacebar to start/stop is brutally simple here). The reason for this is, when you are listening to a take, and hit solo on another take, if play continues, it can take a few seconds before what you hear, is actually what you selected. By stopping and starting, you WILL always hear what is selected(solo'd). When you hear the take you like, whether its a word, a phrase or entire line, just highlight and hit the up arrow to promote to your comp. This may sound like a lot of work, but its quite easy and fast, as long as you avoid the tendency to do 16 takes(yes, I have a producer that insists on that! Fortunately, he knows how to comp in PT and takes over.....God bless him)

But stopping between takes kills the vibe IMHO.

If you can't use voice stealing (non-TDM) then I would set up a compressor that is "keyed" from the Comp track to Duck the Takes track.

So you have your Comp track and a Takes track. The Takes track has all the takes that you're comping from. The Takes track will be ducked whenever the Comp track is playing so that you'll always hear the keeper parts flowing into your vocal options.

Good luck.

[albee1952]

Kenny knows lots more than me, but honestly, hitting spacebar twice and clicking a Solo button in between takes about 1 second, and there's not much "vibe" involved with listening to the same line or phrase, over and over.

As for the rest, my method works fine without any trickery(though I have great respect for Kenny's level of knowledge, I believe this might be over-thinking). At the end of the day, try ALL methods and choose the one that works best for you(that's the beauty of options...or is it the curse).

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Kenny knows lots more than me,

Damn right. Do you see my badge?

Just kidding!!!!

Originally Posted by albee1952

but honestly, hitting spacebar twice and clicking a Solo button in between takes about 1 second, and there's not much "vibe" involved with listening to the same line or phrase, over and over.

I don't take issue with hitting the space bar as I also stop before switching takes. Looping is inaccurate as you pointed out.

My issue is that I want to hear the line in context. If I chose take 7 on the previous line from the one I'm picking, I want to hear take 7 go into the new takes.

That's a flaw of the comping system that Pro Tools created IMHO. They should have made a "keeper" playlist that always plays when there's audio on there.

Coming out of the wrong take skews your view on how good the next line is or if it's all flowing at all. It's supposed to be a great performance. Not a bunch of great isolated pieces.

Because I'm on TDM, it's really easy by using voice stealing. Although using a compressor for ducking isn't very hard either.

Thanks

[albee1952]

Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!!! I think between the 2 of us, we may be on to the next improvement for Avid's comping system. How about a simple key command to select a clip on any playlist as a "keeper" that will be played, regardless of solo selection(once you designate a clip as a "keeper"). Then, once you finish and have all your "keepers" selected, a single click promotes all to your comp playlist

[scrnplyr]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!!! I think between the 2 of us, we may be on to the next improvement for Avid's comping system. How about a simple key command to select a clip on any playlist as a "keeper" that will be played, regardless of solo selection(once you designate a clip as a "keeper"). Then, once you finish and have all your "keepers" selected, a single click promotes all to your comp playlist

damn good idea Albee. the time involved with comping can be downright consuming and trying to remember the good clip sections from 9 playlists can be daunting. Don't get me started about trying to compare between the best and 2nd best clips on 9 different playlists, "it's enough to lose my mind" - to quote some rock song i forgot the name of.