Static and noise making PT unusable

[captainmarko]

Greetings all.

Long time user.

I recently upgraded my trusty 2011 Mac Pro to a new Mac Studio M1 Ultra. When I try to open some old mixes to provide stems as per request, I can't even play them without tons of static, noise, etc.

I have done ALL of the available fixes. Mac is optimized for PT. Plugins are up to date and the ones that aren't are unused for the moment. I've uninstalled and reinstalled PT. All to no avail.

My old machine was handling these sessions with no problem. Old machine was sending audio out via PCI USB card into my Orion 32+. Now I'm sending it over TB. I have a hard time thinking it's the machine. I'm running ENORMOUS sessions in Logic Pro X with tons of VI's and no problems.

But I cannot get these sessions to play no matter what.

And FWIW, I've tried all the obvious stuff. I've been working in PT professionally for more than 20 years.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by captainmarko

Plugins are up to date and the ones that aren't are unused for the moment. I've uninstalled and reinstalled PT. All to no avail.

Uh what does this mean? You should not have old below-spec plugins installed in Pro Tools, even if not using them. Any plugin loaded into pro Tools can potentially cause problems regardless if they are used. Wether that is causing problems no idea, but you should be removing all .aaxplugin files from the plugin folder, trashing prefs, and Pro Tools will automagically reinstall the Pro Tools core plugins, start there seeing if that works OK with no third party plugins.

Playback Engine Buffer size? What happens when you set that to Maximum size? Make sure ignore errors *not* checked. Sample Rate? What happens when you change that to something else (and try 44.1 or 48 kHz).

You don't actually say what you have done. Lots of "I did everything" claims end up with folks not doing nearly all the standard stuff (e.g. troubleshooting steps under "Help Us Help You" up the top of each DUC web page).

Have you trashed prefs? (ideally use PT Prefs)

Have you tested from a new admin account?

Have you tested using the default Mac built in output or whatever its called on the Studio, or headphones on the mac? Just try any other interface, yes even if it works OK with Logic Pro.

Did you use the system migration tool to migrate stuff to this mac? Migrate what exactly?

And I keep repeating this on DUC: uninstalling and reinstalling Pro Tools is typically not useful. You should be properly working through standard troubleshooting and reinstalling Pro Tools is something to try well down the line.

[Darryl Ramm]

Still stuck post a clip online of the noise.

Noise is consistent?

You sure it's not noise from a demo plugin/plugin with a licensing problem?

[captainmarko]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Uh what does this mean? You should not have old below-spec plugins installed in Pro Tools, even if not using them. Any plugin loaded into pro Tools can potentially cause problems regardless if they are used. Wether that is causing problems no idea, but you should be removing all .aaxplugin files from the plugin folder, trashing prefs, and Pro Tools will automagically reinstall the Pro Tools core plugins, start there seeing if that works OK with no third party plugins.

What that means is that I sat through countless launches, staring at the screen to see what plugins hung up the launch, and placed them all in the Unused Plugins folder. So all plugins in the Plugins folder have passed muster and are up to date.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Playback Engine Buffer size? What happens when you set that to Maximum size? Make sure ignore errors *not* checked. Sample Rate? What happens when you change that to something else (and try 44.1 or 48 kHz).

I have set that to all available sizes with no change in result. Sample rate for these particular sessions was 48k. I did not think to change it.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

You don't actually say what you have done. Lots of "I did everything" claims end up with folks not doing nearly all the standard stuff (e.g. troubleshooting steps under "Help Us Help You" up the top of each DUC web page).

Have you trashed prefs? (ideally use PT Prefs)

Have you tested from a new admin account?

What I have done is what I think to be the standard stuff. Trash the prefs, waves cache, workspace, etc. Double check to make sure that I had followed all the optimization procedures, some of which I had missed because it's a new machine. The original problem was that it wouldn't launch without hanging up, which turned out to be a plugin issue. And yes, I went through all the troubleshooting procedures under "Help Us Help You" to the letter, the last of which is uninstalling and reinstalling Pro Tools.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Have you tested using the default Mac built in output or whatever its called on the Studio, or headphones on the mac? Just try any other interface, yes even if it works OK with Logic Pro.

I didn't think about that, I will try that next chance I get.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Did you use the system migration tool to migrate stuff to this mac? Migrate what exactly?

I did. I used Migration Assistant to copy my other computer (software, applications, email, etc.) to the new one. All of my sessions were on a separate SSD and my sample libraries on yet another one. I used Carbon Copy Cloner to copy those drives to new external Thunderbolt SSD's which is what I'm using with the new system.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

And I keep repeating this on DUC: uninstalling and reinstalling Pro Tools is typically not useful. You should be properly working through standard troubleshooting and reinstalling Pro Tools is something to try well down the line.

This was the very last thing I did. I spent four hours yesterday going through all my plugins thinking that was the problem. After that was eliminated, I spent a good part of today going through all available troubleshooting, and, with no other options, I did an uninstall/clean reinstall. My thoughts being that perhaps something got corrupted during the migration to the new setup.

I appreciate your thorough reply.

[captainmarko]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Still stuck post a clip online of the noise.

Noise is consistent?

You sure it's not noise from a demo plugin/plugin with a licensing problem?

I will post a clip of the noise when I get a chance, which won't be until Sunday. I'm not sure of anything. It could very well be that. I will have to go through everything, but all my plugins are licensed and paid for, and, to the best of my knowledge, up to date.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by captainmarko

What that means is that I sat through countless launches, staring at the screen to see what plugins hung up the launch, and placed them all in the Unused Plugins folder. So all plugins in the Plugins folder have passed muster and are up to date.

Thanks for clarifying that. Unfortunately just getting the plugins to load may very well mean you are leaving them there where if they have bugs/incompatibilities they are able to do bad things. A plugin loaded in Pro Tools can do just about anything, chew CPU, cause glitches, corrupt internal memory, write garbage to session files etc. etc. Plugins might work in older Pro Tools versions, and start having nasty problems on new versions. Again the right way to to troubleshoot this is to move all plugins to the Unused folder (or anywhere else). Trash prefs and restart Pro Tools, the core plugins get put back automagically by Pro Tools. Then if Pro Tools runs OK like that then start putting your .aaxplugin files you most need back into the plug-in folder, and restart Pro Tools (personally I trash prefs on each plugin change and like to see it perform a full plugin index rebuild). But you should be checking plugin versions you have on disk vs. the latest versions from plugin vendors (and if possible if they are know to work OK with Pro Tools on Monterey on Apple Silicon).

But who knows if this is an issue, the main thing is to do a super quick test removing *all* the .aaxplugin files the first time... if the problem is still there then you absolutely have excluded third party (and effectively all) Plugins issues. Minutes not hours of work to know that.

I did. I used Migration Assistant to copy my other computer (software, applications, email, etc.) to the new one. All of my sessions were on a separate SSD and my sample libraries on yet another one. I used Carbon Copy Cloner to copy those drives to new external Thunderbolt SSD's which is what I'm using with the new system.

I would really advise agains using Migration Assistant to moving over applications or drivers. There are too many things were drivers are better installed fresh from their installers on the new computer. Same with applications, it's better to give apps like Pro Tools a completely clean system and let their installers do the right stuff... you are also ending up then with cleaner installs that are likely closer to what say Pro Tools 2022.7 was installed and tested on in Avid development. Not a system that may have years of cruft moved to it by Migration Assistant. Avid used to recommend you do NOT (edit.. oops left out not) use migration assistant, not sure if that still written down anywhere.

What Migration assistant is good for is moving user accounts and user documents.

Now you'll get folks telling you they have been using Migration Assistant for years without problems. And that's absolutely true, I expect it to work most of the time. But it can run into problem with drivers and apps and ruin your day.

Since you did use migration assistant and have spent hours doing debugging already what I'd suggest is if you can't solve the problem pretty quickly (esp. doing the plugin, new admin user, and other playback engine tests) then you just give up, use recovery mode on your mac to reset it to factory default and start over. Grab a Pro Tools installer, just install that and nothing else, don't install any plugins, or anything else and test that works with one of your existing sessions. Then you can step through installing plugins from the manufacturer's latest installers. Do most useful to you first, checking the sessions still work OK as you do this.

If you have space on the internal SSD you can create another APFS volume and do a new macOS install there, that way if it does not help you have not erased what you have today.

Maybe start by downloading the latest plugin installers (on a different computer?) as you are doing other stuff. I keep a Google spreadsheet or all plugins, versions etc. Pete Gate's PT Prefs prints a handy list of plugin versions.

[its2loud]

Ditto to e everything Darryl suggested.

I have more questions.

Can you try connecting the Orion via USB to rule out any issues with thunderbolt and the Mac Studio?

Are you using an official Apple Thunderbolt cable and TB2 to TB2 adapter?

Is the Orion clocking correctly when opening the older Pro Tools sessions? What is its clock source?
This one is very important. Check the
Orion to make sure it’s at the same sample rate as the session.

Does the noise happen only when you try to play the sessions or does it happen continuously even when the transport is stopped?

[captainmarko]

Thanks Darryl, you're pretty much confirming what I thought. When I re-introduced plugins, I was doing it 15-20 at a time because I have a ridiculous number of plugins. So it would appear that I'm going to spend my next free day doing that. I appreciate you taking the time to reply so thoroughly.

[captainmarko]

Originally Posted by its2loud

Ditto to e everything Darryl suggested.

I have more questions.

Can you try connecting the Orion via USB to rule out any issues with thunderbolt and the Mac Studio?

Are you using an official Apple Thunderbolt cable and TB2 to TB2 adapter?

Is the Orion clocking correctly when opening the older Pro Tools sessions? What is its clock source?
This one is very important. Check the
Orion to make sure it’s at the same sample rate as the session.

Does the noise happen only when you try to play the sessions or does it happen continuously even when the transport is stopped?

I'll have to check on the cable. Pretty sure it's Apple with the Apple adaptor. Clock source has always been internal with the Orion, so I didn't check that. I'll add it to my list. Noise only happens when playing the session. Happens as soon as I hit play, even during the two bars of silence before the audio starts.

I'm pretty convinced that it's a plugin issue. We will see when I can get back the studio. Gotta go in early today to bury myself in Ableton at work.

[Southsidemusic]

Just a FYI to make sure you know:

ALL Plugins in the .aax folder loads in a new session and old sessions when using PT as PT reads in plugins not in a session which to Darryls point needs to be checked thoroughly so maybe put back less than 20 at a time so you can rule out exactly which if any plugin/plugins might be messing with the system.

Although to ME the fact you have noise when there is no audio playing but the session is started. To me this sounds more like a driver issue or a bad cable issue. A plugin can absolutely be a culprit but the test to disconnect every extra gear like hubs, external drives, interface etc and ONLY start PT and use internal sound card and see if that noise is still there and if YES then it is most likely not the interface but IF the noise is gone you need to look at cables and adaptors and that both adaptors and Thunderbolt cables are 100%. I know a few non Apple adaptors can do this as it happened to both of our two sister studios with Apollo X8p interfaces and Symphony MK2.

And to the clocking of the interface is worth a new look if the noise is still present after checking using ONLY the internal soundcard test. If you have several outputs on the tracks make sure you goto Settings dropdown - i/o and delete alll the outs and ins and aux on the input and output pages and delete - Then press DEFAULT and the 2 channel stereo out from the internal card will re-route all the tracks in the session.

This is probably done but start a brand new session at 48/24 and import a wav file or two and press play and see if the noise is there then aswell and do this with internal soundcard and see as that eliminates any issues the adaptors and cables to your interface. Makesure you pull out all the things like interface and any extra whatever it is except keyboard and mouse and start with a session you have noise on and then try a brand new session in 48/24 and import a few wav files and see what happens then.

And of couse the plugin test with every plugin moved to unused and restart PT and even computer so PT populates only the stock plugins.

Best of luck and let us know as soon as all these things have been properly done.