TMC-1 & MTRX Studio

[bewk]

Does anyone here have experience with Colin Broad's TMC-1 as a monitor controller for the MTRX product line. This seems like a uniquely integrated solution but I have never been exposed to one nor do I know anyone who has. I've been using The Dock for many years and it does a lot but I'd like something dedicated so as not to have to toggle in and out of Avid Control to get to monitoring.

MOM and Luke's emulation for the Stream Deck+ are also great options and there is plenty of information about those. I know those work well but I'd like to hear impressions of how the TMC compares as it seems like it has the same features and more than MOM with an SPL indicator, meters, etc.

This would be used for Atmos (7.1.4) monitoring with the MTRX Studio. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

-Chris

[BScout]

Your best bet is to contact Colin himself. I have experience with the TMC1-Penta with full size MTRX (and AX32) but it uses its own protocol so I don't know if that exists/is compatible with the MTRX Studio.
Most likely it is but you should check directly with Colin.

The TMC runs completely independent of DADman. So you still use DADman for patching but use the TMC software instead of the ProMon section of DADman.

[bewk]

Thanks, BScout. It's less so an inquiry as to whether or not it's supported. I've reached out to Colin already and he's confirmed that it does. The MTRX Studio is listed on his site as a supported device so I believe that to be true.

I'm more interested in the user experience. How well does it work? Is it solid? Is it flaky? Cumbersome to configure? The direct connection to the hardware using DADs protocol is what piqued my interest and seems like a solid piece of kit and yet it isn't even mentioned on the sticky for the MTRX family of products in the monitor controller section. There's only one video I've seen on their site to show it in use and it looks to check off a lot of boxes, but I'm looking for first hand experience from people like yourself who have put it through its paces.

I know you use Luke's emulator on the Stream Deck+. Did it replace your TMC-1? There's such a huge price gap between the dedicated hardware controllers and the Stream Deck. How is that price gap reflected in your workflow?

[BScout]

Originally Posted by bewk

I'm more interested in the user experience. How well does it work? Is it solid? Is it flaky? Cumbersome to configure? The direct connection to the hardware using DADs protocol is what piqued my interest and seems like a solid piece of kit and yet it isn't even mentioned on the sticky for the MTRX family of products in the monitor controller section. There's only one video I've seen on their site to show it in use and it looks to check off a lot of boxes, but I'm looking for first hand experience from people like yourself who have put it through its paces.

I know you use Luke's emulator on the Stream Deck+. Did it replace your TMC-1? There's such a huge price gap between the dedicated hardware controllers and the Stream Deck. How is that price gap reflected in your workflow?

Not to be too humorous, but I have a multitude of studios under my workflow. My home studio is S1x2/Dock with Luke's brilliant Streamdeck emulation of the MOM. But I have S6 systems (just using the monitor section) and a different one with the TMC and another using a Grace m908. I've even been offered a TMC (a year ago) for the cost of Streamdeck Plus for my home setup (but declined because I didn't see a personal benefit over what Luke's engineered out of the MOM protocol.)

One of the benefits of the TMC is it runs independent. It is, in essence, just the DADman ProMon section. So DADman can be closed (like a computer reboot) and it still functions. On my home system, I've put DADman to a single task/always on Mac Mini that makes it equivalent but the TMC is much like both of those together.
My guess is Colin reverse-engineered the meters that show up in DADman for the ProMon section to make them available for his device. He's, in essence, created a DADman "host" for the ProMon section and put it out on more conventional hardware. It's good stuff.
Honestly, Digital Audio Denmark needs to put out a more useful device than the MOM that taps into what Colin has done (or even Luke.) The MOM is poor and overpriced because: limited buttons, no identification on buttons, no meters.

Even sub $500 audio interfaces can do more than the $1300 MOM unit. It's an insult. But the TMC rectiifies a lot. But, I'd say, Luke's emulation with the multi-MOM adaptions does a lot. Only thing I miss is the meters.

[bewk]

Thanks for the feedback, BScout. This confirms the way the devices read "on paper" but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious. I appreciate what DAD is doing with their product line as this is exactly the type of hardware needed to make post work efficient. But I can't validate the price tag for a MOM when a third party device is doing more for roughly for the same price.

And it's a compliment to Luke's emulation to say that the only thing missing for you is meters. How does metering work on the TMC? All of the images/videos online show stereo, 5.1 or 7.1 configurations. What happens when your channel width expands to something wider than 7.1? Are the additional channels on another page or does the display update to reflect all of the channels of a 7.1.4 or 9.1.6 mix simultaneously?

[LukeHoward]

Thanks for the kind words about the StreamDeck plugin.

Not to deviate off-topic, but I am also working on a personal monitor mixer hardware product that is based on the AES70/OCA control protocol and will support the three most popular audio networking protocols :) I actually opened up the core of the MOM emulation a while ago and have a MOM to OCA bridge available [1], so potentially it's something I can also port to the aforementioned hardware product. (Point being it could also support metering over Dante.)

[1] https://github.com/PADL/MOMOCABridge

[bewk]

The complements are well deserved, Luke. And your comment is absolutely not off topic as my interest in knowing more about the TMC-1 is just as much a "talk me out of buying it" thread and using your emulation instead. The cost of entry is kind of a no-brainer if all of the same features are available with a Stream Deck+. It sounds like a lot of ground is covered with your app, with the exception of metering as mentioned above. My current setup is just a Dock and an iPad and I seldom have the meters parked on the Dock as it's always busy with other tasks. The TMC-1 closes that gap for me.

Avid Control is nice for the consolidation of hardware as it helps reduce cost, but it'd be nice to have the option to setup dedicated meters on an tablet like a Master Meter Module on the S6. I'm interested in anything that will get me closer to that, and it sounds like you're developing something not dissimilar. Very interested in hearing more about it.

Thanks,
Chris

[LukeHoward]

There is this Dante metering app:

https://zenso.app/dmeter/

I think there's another one too, I'll look when I have a better internet connection.

The product I'm working on (being a monitoring as well as control device) may not be the most cost-effective solution if you don't need the monitoring part. (I can't compete on price with low volumes so, it will necessarily be a premium product!)

[bewk]

Thanks, Luke. I'll take another look at DMeter.

Ergonomics and economy of motion are high on the list for how I like to setup my desk. I'm fine with paying premium pricing for the right piece of gear if it does what I need it to do reliably. It's worth paying more in the long run if it saves time and money.

Good on you for setting your target above the rest. Keep us posted!

[LukeHoward]

Originally Posted by bewk

Thanks, Luke. I'll take another look at DMeter.

Ergonomics and economy of motion are high on the list for how I like to setup my desk. I'm fine with paying premium pricing for the right piece of gear if it does what I need it to do reliably. It's worth paying more in the long run if it saves time and money.

Good on you for setting your target above the rest. Keep us posted!

I will! I'm reluctant to talk about things before they're ready because, well, it just creates expectations. (I'm not too worried about tipping off the competition because no commercial manufacturer would be crazy enough to build something with this high a BOM cost.) On the other hand, I am quite excited about it and have been working on it for the past year or so.

The product is a personal monitor mixer (not a new product category) that supports both Dante and AVB/MILAN, with a touchscreen UI, remote control over AES70/OCA, two independently addressable headphone outputs with a line output mirroring HP2, and a single SKU with channel count and other features unlocked by license key. I have quite a few ideas about UX design and DAW integration but I'm going to keep those to myself for now.

The current prototype has end-to-end (analog) latency of about 680us, including the latency of the MTRX A/D converters and the HDX mix engine, at 96k. Keeping the end-to-end latency under 1ms is a key design goal.