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  #21  
Old 11-18-2022, 02:44 PM
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jeffro jeffro is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Flex Renaming Back To Ultimate

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Originally Posted by noah330 View Post
My head hurts.

I pay $399/yr. Why would anyone pay $599/yr?

Maybe it's because they never got a full license like I did when I bought my card?
You own a perpetual license, but this change applies to subscriptions. The top tier subscription was named Pro Tools Flex, which included the Pro Tools Ultimate software & license for $999. We changed the 'tier' name to Pro Tools Ultimate (to be less confusing) and changed the price to $599.
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  #22  
Old 11-18-2022, 02:44 PM
Uli Auer Uli Auer is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Flex Renaming Back To Ultimate

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Originally Posted by Tweakhead View Post
Paying $400 for updates that seem to always bring back twice the number of old bugs than what gets fixed with each build is getting really tired. The day after every release it seems the DUC starts filling up with bugs that came back from the dead. Avid sound like they've given up, and simply attempt to placate all us loyal users with more useless "free" content, rather than for example making all the additional Avid plugins and Air licenses permanent.

And yet again, as if I need to point it out, we still don't have an M1 Native macOS Code Build. It doesn't appear very ultimate or flexible to me.
You nailed it. For years or better said decades there's this little nondescript document named "known issues" that holds pages after pages of - yes, KNOWN ISSUES!. But wtf does Avid do to these? I mean what's the meaning in knowing about issues that re-appear just the same over and over again in newer updates???

I've been struggling with a Avid Support conversation for years about one of those issues (a big one btw: that re-recording through an Aux track wrote the audio with a delay while recording from the same input directly to an audio track didn't)....working with a huge hybrid system for mastering and hybrid mixing (64 I/O) simply drove me into complete madland....for 2 1/2 years they told me that this would be on high priority etc etc....version after version passed without any change
And yes, I totally agree that FOR THIS YEARLY PRICE this software should be top notch, also be capable of brewing finest italian espresso in a trashcan mac and print dollar bills out of the dvd drawer slot of my cheesegrater mac....and yes...after 2 years of silicon architecture still no native PT version ? (Yes, i know that there are reports about a beta-testing of PT silicon.....but hey, it's Avid....how long can that take again...?)
Shame on you Avid for taking ANY money from loyal customers - I'm using PT for 25 years now, which is exactly the only reason I can't (and don't want to) adapt and change to Studio One, Reaper or Logic - mainly regarding audio editing....

Ah. and I forgot.....btw my HD native PCIe card is not working at all in a (Avid certified) Sonnet Echo III desktop TB enclosure....

Last edited by Uli Auer; 11-18-2022 at 03:16 PM.
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  #23  
Old 11-18-2022, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools Flex Renaming Back To Ultimate

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Originally Posted by Uli Auer View Post
...I've been struggling with a Avid Support conversation for years about one of those issues (a big one btw: that re-recording through an Aux track wrote the audio with a delay while recording from the same input directly to an audio track didn't)...
Do you have a link to another thread about the issue you're describing? I did find your support case which said it was solved in June 2021 with a fix for PT-228817 (it's listed in the 2021.6 Release Notes). If this issue is still occurring we should re-open that case.
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  #24  
Old 11-18-2022, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools Flex Renaming Back To Ultimate

Thank you for the clarity.
Perpetualy.
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  #25  
Old 11-18-2022, 07:53 PM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Flex Renaming Back To Ultimate

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Originally Posted by uptheoctave View Post
There are two types of license.

Perpetual, which you and I have.
It was $2k ish for a new license and the $400 is for the yearly update plan.

Avid have just lowered the price of the second license, the subscription, which was a grand but is now $600, including the updates for 12 months.

Avid are, fairly obviously, trying to entice people away from perpetual licenses.
Initially it was because Flex had *loads of stuff that Ultimate didn't.
That changed and Flex and Ultimate basically became the same, Ultimate was the perpetual license, Flex the subscription.

Now they are exactly the same except Flex (now Ultimate Subscription) is $600, not $1000, but Ultimate (Perpetual) is still $400 p.a. for support.

I would personally like Avid to acknowledge the outlay that perpetual license holders have spent with them over the years. Two approaches would be 1) lower the support plan to $300 p.a. or 2) Offer the subscription switch over for $400 p.a. with a guarantee it remains the same for x number of years (like 5+)**.
Otherwise I am not interested.

(* loads of stuff I had no use for, really)

(** not holding my breath here)

By way of contrast Logic has made me just as much money in the last 10 years and cost me $200. I know Apple sell Logic as a loss-leader to get people to buy Macs, but still... my Avid software spend in the last 10 years has been $4k (and $30k in hardware).
Avid is basically in the business of playing the Schmuck's game. They ABSOLUTELY do not give a toss about perpetual license owners as they represent the loyalist of Pro Tools users. They paid the $2800 for Ultimate licenses or lots more for DSP systems. They keep paying the $399 a year in 'support', for which they receive buggy updates in return, and the opportunity to beta-test expensive software thanks to a whole three one-sentence replies from Avid support over a 6 week period while they apparently 'research' issues that basically make their application unusable.

Unfortunately the simple reality is that CEO and management don't get bonuses and bigger pay checks just for keeping loyal customers. Shareholders seek the perception of economic return. I would heed Avid's advice quite literally. With perpetual licenses "nothing has changed". Nothing will ever change. Avid would rather spend their time painting the cafe walls a nice new colour to entice new people, whether users or shareholders, than focus on making their coffee taste better for current users...

Avid would happily burn every loyal longtime user and the whole Pro Tools platform to the ground if they thought it would net a positive reaction from their shareholders.
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  #26  
Old 11-18-2022, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools Flex Renaming Back To Ultimate

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Originally Posted by LDS View Post
Avid is basically in the business of playing the Schmuck's game. They ABSOLUTELY do not give a toss about perpetual license owners as they represent the loyalist of Pro Tools users. They paid the $2800 for Ultimate licenses or lots more for DSP systems. They keep paying the $399 a year in 'support', for which they receive buggy updates in return, and the opportunity to beta-test expensive software thanks to a whole three one-sentence replies from Avid support over a 6 week period while they apparently 'research' issues that basically make their application unusable.

Unfortunately the simple reality is that CEO and management don't get bonuses and bigger pay checks just for keeping loyal customers. Shareholders seek the perception of economic return. I would heed Avid's advice quite literally. With perpetual licenses "nothing has changed". Nothing will ever change. Avid would rather spend their time painting the cafe walls a nice new colour to entice new people, whether users or shareholders, than focus on making their coffee taste better for current users...

Avid would happily burn every loyal longtime user and the whole Pro Tools platform to the ground if they thought it would net a positive reaction from their shareholders.
While I verily agree with this, especially as it reads like an accurate diagnosis of economic and ecological unsustainability in general, that's getting quite off-topic, and I'd honestly rather say a LOT more about this, and could...

But I won't due to the context of DUC being an audio engineer software forum.

I think it is a very good choice to go with not renaming for flashy marketing, and I totally share the sense long-term users have to feel deserving of their bugs getting actual fixes.
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  #27  
Old 11-19-2022, 12:58 AM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Flex Renaming Back To Ultimate

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Originally Posted by nednednerb View Post
I think it is a very good choice to go with not renaming for flashy marketing, and I totally share the sense long-term users have to feel deserving of their bugs getting actual fixes.
The tragedy is that the marketing isn't even flashy!! Most of the local fast food joints around here push the same whole exclusivity 'inner circle' marketing nonsense to pedal cheap pizzas on Friday and Saturday nights. It is ALARMING that a CEO of a tech company on a 7 figure salary package let fast food marketing anywhere near their top tier 'industry standard' professional product...

It is ridiculous. It is beyond ridiculous. I really don't know what Avid is trying to achieve with all this constant rebranding nonsense. We are audio engineers. It is relatively easy to keep us happy. Kill the bugs, and focus on bringing value and improvement to the core product. Ain't rocket science! Nobody ever purchased Pro Tools LE because it came with Ableton Lite, and ain't nobody subscribing to Pro Tools Ultimate because of an offer for a few free plugins in lieu of actually doing something productive with the features and plugins already included (or missing!) in Pro Tools.

Someone really needs to drop a memo on the CEO's desk. The younger generation stand to make more money from trash talking Pro Tools in Youtube videos than they ever will from actually using Pro Tools. This dude alone has probably netted about $2k in a month from a 5.5 minute video. It really doesn't matter how much money Avid pour into trying to pursue a cool-kid-social-media-influencer vibe in their marketing, it is only going to double down on the perception that Avid is out of touch until they sort out the issues and lack of innovation with their core products and pricing. The younger generations are just way to perceptive. They value the opinions of their Avid despising friends more than anything else, and they are very apt at figuring things out on their own.

The whole marketing approach is cringe-worthy. Pro Tools used to be venerable. Like a Gibson Les Paul, or an American USA Strat donned by your favourite guitarist. It used to be something to aspire to. Now it is the butt of most industry jokes...
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  #28  
Old 11-19-2022, 05:02 AM
dcoffset dcoffset is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Flex Renaming Back To Ultimate

Whilst I agree with some aspects of that you are saying, I do think it's easy to kinda lose track of what has been achieved lately. There's a way to go but Avid have been trying to address issues.

Also that video about the 32bit float is kinda ridiculous. Firstly, who does that in their day to day work? Secondly, isn't it to do with the noise protection burst peak protection that was added but not broadly announced by Avid (at least I wasn't aware of it until the preference got added... Might be wrong on the second point as haven't tested it as I prefer to work with sane gain staging
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  #29  
Old 11-19-2022, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools Flex Renaming Back To Ultimate

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Originally Posted by LDS View Post
...Kill the bugs, and focus on bringing value and improvement to the core product....

This!
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  #30  
Old 11-19-2022, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools Flex Renaming Back To Ultimate

I'm with LDS here. When I saw this news I thought it was cringe-y, ridiculous, and frustrating. I have people who use other DAWs ask me about switching to Pro Tools, and I literally don't know how to get Pro Tools anymore. Avid changes the options five times a year, and I can't keep up with whether or not someone is able to buy a perpetual license, whether they have to subscribe, what the tiers are, whether I'll be able to re-up a perpetual or if they'll force me to eventually subscribe... I have no clue! And honestly, my reaction is like, oh, if they won't let you buy perpetual right now, just wait a few months, they'll probably flip flop again when they realize how much their strategy isn't working. How am I supposed to recommend other people use Pro Tools if I can't keep up with all of the arbitrary changes? We're all invested in Pro Tools enough to be posting about it on this forum, and even we all need someone from Avid commenting to correct us on their pricing/subscription/renewal details???

This past year has been such a debacle with each Pro Tools release. I needed to update to use Atmos, then every subsequent version was broken in a new and unique way that often had nothing to do with the new features being introduced. Remember when they broke MIDI for a few versions? With no other software does the company announce a new version update and you think "I'd better wait a few days and see how bad the bugs are on this version". The Pro Tools user strategy is to find a version that works and never update, which I'd been doing, but when I needed a new computer it's been one bad version after another, not to mention that it's STILL not M1 compatible

Everyone has complaints about their DAWs I'm sure, but to LDS's point about Avid playing the Schmuck's game... It feels like Avid is using their 15+ year users to prop itself up because they know we don't want to switch. I bought several years of PT updates a few years back and it's running out for me at the end of next year then who knows
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