Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Hardware > Pro Tools | MTRX & MTRX Studio

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-01-2021, 07:48 PM
polyh3dron polyh3dron is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 96
Default MTRX Studio with Dante on the secondary Ethernet port on an unmanaged switch?

I have three Dante Virtual Soundcard devices with dedicated Ethernet ports, a Dante AVIO device, and a MTRX Studio's second port all connected to a unmanaged switch with nothing else connected to it to use as a dedicated Dante network. I am attempting to make them all show up properly in Dante Controller with the MTRX Studio being the master. The DVS instances and the Dante AVIO all have self-assigned 169.* IP addresses. The MTRX Studio is set up in DADman to the redundant Ethernet switch mode. From how I interpret the instructions, this is the mode which sets the first port to be the control port, and the second port to be the Dante port, but this mode enables a secondary Dante connection in the network settings of unit. I'm not sure where this secondary connection would be, and I'm not sure which of these is supposed to be the 2nd port on my MTRX studio which is supposed to be the only Dante connection

I have the MTRX Studio set to obtain IP addresses automatically on the control port as well as the primary and secondary Dante interfaces. The primary port seems to see some type of DHCP server and has a 192.* address, while the secondary port has a 172.* address. Dante Controller is giving me errors suggesting the primary and secondary ports are connected to each other when this is not the case. How do I get the MTRX studio running properly with Dante Controller on a dedicated unmanaged switch network for Dante from the second Ethernet port?

Last edited by polyh3dron; 05-01-2021 at 08:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-01-2021, 10:45 PM
JCBigler's Avatar
JCBigler JCBigler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 3,009
Default Re: MTRX Studio with Dante on the secondary Ethernet port on an unmanaged switch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by polyh3dron View Post
I have three Dante Virtual Soundcard devices with dedicated Ethernet ports, a Dante AVIO device, and a MTRX Studio's second port all connected to a unmanaged switch with nothing else connected to it to use as a dedicated Dante network..[snip]..From how I interpret the instructions, this is the mode which sets the first port to be the control port, and the second port to be the Dante port, but this mode enables a secondary Dante connection in the network settings of unit.

Dante Controller is giving me errors suggesting the primary and secondary ports are connected to each other when this is not the case.
Negative.

On a redundant Dante network, both ports transmit all of the same data, audio and control at the same time. They are two separate networks that work independently. What you've done is create a broadcast storm by connecting the primary network (the one with the DVS devices and the AVIO) to the secondary network. Which is why you can't get Dante Controller to connect to anything.

For Dante networks that run in redundant mode, BOTH the primary and secondary network ports will connect to their own switches (not the same switches). You will need two of the same switches to run redundant.

You can enable the two Dante ports on the MTRX Studio to run in "Daisy-chain mode", which makes them work on the same network, basically, an input port and an output port. You connect the MRTX Studio in-line with the rest of the network devices, without the use of a switch.

You can only Connect DVS devices and AVIO devices to the primary network. And it used to be that you could only connect one DVS device to the Dante network at a time, but I think that's changed in recent years.

Without a network switch, you will have to run in Daisy Chain Mode. I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, run in redundant mode with two switches. And you need to use a managed switch also. I recommend the NetGear GS108T or GS108PE if you need PoE. They are about $60. The Cisco SG300-10/350-10 is also highly regarded and an industry standard for managed network switches for use with Dante.
__________________
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

Lenovo P50: quad-core i7-6820hq, 64GB, 2TB SSD, Win 10 Pro / Protools vanilla 2022.9
2018 MacBook Pro: six-core i9, 32GB, 1TB, Monterey / HD|Native-TB / Protools Ultimate 2022.9, DAPS, L-ISA Studio

Home/mobile: Focusrite Red 8Pre / Clarett 4Pre / DVS
Road/hotel: Roland OctaCaputre / Apogee One

Last edited by JCBigler; 05-01-2021 at 10:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-02-2021, 12:41 AM
polyh3dron polyh3dron is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 96
Default Re: MTRX Studio with Dante on the secondary Ethernet port on an unmanaged switch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
Negative.

On a redundant Dante network, both ports transmit all of the same data, audio and control at the same time. They are two separate networks that work independently. What you've done is create a broadcast storm by connecting the primary network (the one with the DVS devices and the AVIO) to the secondary network. Which is why you can't get Dante Controller to connect to anything.

For Dante networks that run in redundant mode, BOTH the primary and secondary network ports will connect to their own switches (not the same switches). You will need two of the same switches to run redundant.

You can enable the two Dante ports on the MTRX Studio to run in "Daisy-chain mode", which makes them work on the same network, basically, an input port and an output port. You connect the MRTX Studio in-line with the rest of the network devices, without the use of a switch.

You can only Connect DVS devices and AVIO devices to the primary network. And it used to be that you could only connect one DVS device to the Dante network at a time, but I think that's changed in recent years.

Without a network switch, you will have to run in Daisy Chain Mode. I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, run in redundant mode with two switches. And you need to use a managed switch also. I recommend the NetGear GS108T or GS108PE if you need PoE. They are about $60. The Cisco SG300-10/350-10 is also highly regarded and an industry standard for managed network switches for use with Dante.
So I need to run in redundant mode with two switches. That's exactly what I am trying to do here. My main network is what the first MTRX Studio port is connected to. This is where most of my data traffic occurs, like internet traffic, file transfers, etc. It is also a network that has my router dealing out IP addresses through DHCP.

My second port on the MTRX Studio is hooked up to an unmanaged switch, and the only other things connected to that switch are two dedicated DVS ethernet connections and a Dante AVIO connection. I have been trying to interpret this Avid documentation properly:

Quote:
MTRX Studio is equipped with two GigaBit Ethernet connectors and an internal Ethernet switch, a controller port and a port for IP Audio Dante I/O. The network connectors can operate as two “parallel” connectors for the internal switch or as dual connectors for redundant IP audio operation. When operating in parallel, controlling the unit is done using Net port 1. MTRX Studio has one to three different IP addresses. One for the unit control using DADman software and one or two for the IP audio in single or redundant
mode respectively. The network configuration is managed separately for the controlling interface and for the IP audio interface, and can have different configurations. The controlling interface is used for controlling MTRX Studio from DADman, and the IP audio interface is used for interfacing IP audio in a network.
DADman has no "parallel" setting, and I assume this is referring to the "switched" setting. If not, I cannot find a "parallel" setting for the life of me. When I changed to the switched setting, everything hooked up to my unmanaged switch received 192.* IP addresses all of a sudden and my MTRX Studio would not show up as accessible in Dante Controller. I'm assuming the two ports are actually on the same network in switched mode, which is why my router can see them and give them IP addresses.

Again, I have two separate switches here, and I'm trying to get all my Dante traffic put on my small separate unmanaged switch with static IP assignment while my main network with its DHCP server is connected to the MTRX Studio's control port. Is there really no way to do this?

Also, what exactly is Daisy Chain mode? All I see are switched and redundant modes.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-02-2021, 01:41 AM
JCBigler's Avatar
JCBigler JCBigler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 3,009
Default Re: MTRX Studio with Dante on the secondary Ethernet port on an unmanaged switch?

Switched mode is what Avid calls daisy chain mode. Daisy chain is what Audinate (the inventors of Dante) and Yamaha calls it. So Avid has to call it something else because they have to be difficult and don't want to use the same terminology as Yamaha.

With Switched mode, you don't use any switches. The ports on the MRTX Studio become the switch. But you are limited to the number of peripherals you can attach to the network. Basically, a computer and one other device, with the MRTX studio in-between the two (unless the other devices also have two ethernet ports.)

You HAVE to connect all DVS devices to the primary network. They will not work on the secondary network at all. And the AVIO will need to connect to the primary network also, since it only has one network port. The secondary port in a redundant Dante network is a fail-safe incase something on the primary network dies, it will automatically roll over to the secondary network.

A redundant Dante network is built in a star topology with the network switch at the center, and every device extending out from there, like the arms of a star. A daisy chain is a single line of devices, one connected to the next.

With a redundant Dante network, you will have two physical star networks with each device that has two ports connected to the primary network by their primary network port and the redundant, or backup network connected by their secondary network ports. You can think about them operating on top of each other. But in redundant mode, they are internally configured to not talk to each other, except that the secondary network will automatically follow whatever configuration you set up for the primary network. That's the job of the Dante chips in each device.

What you have now is part of your network connected to the primary network and part of it connected to the secondary network. This causes a broadcast storm which is what's giving you the errors you see in Dante Controller.

Unplug everything, and plug all of the primary ports into the primary switch. and anything that has a secondary port into the secondary switch.

As I said before, you can't connect the DVS devices or the AVIO to the secondary network.

It's also best to use the same make and model of network switch for both the primary and secondary networks. Sometimes switches will have different settings out of the box that make them incompatible if you need to fall back to the secondary network. Also, a managed switch is absolutely necessary for Dante to work properly. Also, if your Dante network is running on a mixed network (i.e. it has internet or other traffic on it) then you're going to have to learn about setting the packet prioritization, IGMP Snooping, and QoS settings.

A good place to start is by reading the FAQ section from Audinate:

https://www.audinate.com/learning/faqs
__________________
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

Lenovo P50: quad-core i7-6820hq, 64GB, 2TB SSD, Win 10 Pro / Protools vanilla 2022.9
2018 MacBook Pro: six-core i9, 32GB, 1TB, Monterey / HD|Native-TB / Protools Ultimate 2022.9, DAPS, L-ISA Studio

Home/mobile: Focusrite Red 8Pre / Clarett 4Pre / DVS
Road/hotel: Roland OctaCaputre / Apogee One
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-02-2021, 08:27 AM
polyh3dron polyh3dron is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 96
Default Re: MTRX Studio with Dante on the secondary Ethernet port on an unmanaged switch?

Thanks Justice. I guess the part of all of this that was confusing me was that the Avid documentation for the MTRX Studio led me to believe that I could separate the control functionality from the Dante functionality and have the two things on separate networks, when this is actually not the case. The way it is written led me to believe that it can be set up for control to be on the first port, and Dante on the second port when this is completely wrong. Perhaps a documentation rewrite is in order?

The reason I need the control portion of my MTRX Studio to be on my main network is because that’s where my WiFi is at, and I use the PT Control app with my iPad via WiFi to control the MTRX Studio’s monitoring functions, but was hoping to still have Dante functionality on a separate network to avoid congestion. A pretty normal use case, no?

Last edited by polyh3dron; 05-02-2021 at 08:53 AM. Reason: Expanding
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-02-2021, 12:50 PM
JCBigler's Avatar
JCBigler JCBigler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 3,009
Default Re: MTRX Studio with Dante on the secondary Ethernet port on an unmanaged switch?

With the way you have your network set up, I think you need to switch the MRTX Studio into Switched Mode, rather than Redundant Mode. I think that will solve your problems. Except that it limits the number of other devices that you can connect to the network.

Without more info on what switches you're using amd how you have everything set up it's difficult to know where the real trouble spot is. But I'm 97% sure that you can run your control network for DADMon on the same network as your Primary Dante network.

Maybe someone else who has the MRTX Studio can chime in. The instructions in the manual are certainly not very clear.
__________________
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

Lenovo P50: quad-core i7-6820hq, 64GB, 2TB SSD, Win 10 Pro / Protools vanilla 2022.9
2018 MacBook Pro: six-core i9, 32GB, 1TB, Monterey / HD|Native-TB / Protools Ultimate 2022.9, DAPS, L-ISA Studio

Home/mobile: Focusrite Red 8Pre / Clarett 4Pre / DVS
Road/hotel: Roland OctaCaputre / Apogee One
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-02-2021, 02:12 PM
creativecontrol's Avatar
creativecontrol creativecontrol is offline
Avid
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,944
Default Re: MTRX Studio with Dante on the secondary Ethernet port on an unmanaged switch?

Yes, agreed switched mode is recommended. We really only see redundant mode in broadcast and mission critical environments.

There should be no issue whatsoever having the small control data passing down your same network as IP audio. DADman will happily connect to any networks on your workstation. EUCON and IP Audio can be isolated for example and your control surface will still be able to communicate with the monitor section - Pro | Mon in DADman.

best,


Jeff
__________________
Jeff Komar
Solutions Specialist, Pro Audio
Avid
S6 FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-02-2021, 06:33 PM
polyh3dron polyh3dron is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 96
Default Re: MTRX Studio with Dante on the secondary Ethernet port on an unmanaged switch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by creativecontrol View Post
Yes, agreed switched mode is recommended. We really only see redundant mode in broadcast and mission critical environments.

There should be no issue whatsoever having the small control data passing down your same network as IP audio. DADman will happily connect to any networks on your workstation. EUCON and IP Audio can be isolated for example and your control surface will still be able to communicate with the monitor section - Pro | Mon in DADman.

best,


Jeff
I see, thanks for chiming in Jeff. My goal was to be able run Eucon and my iPad with the PT Control app on my main network that has WiFi and internet since the iPad needs WiFi, while running all of the IP audio on a separate, dedicated switch, and it is seeming like this can't happen and I have to give up internet access on the iPad while creating an additional wireless access point for this iPad on this dedicated Eucon/Dante network. Would I be correct here?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-02-2021, 07:32 PM
LukeHoward LukeHoward is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,178
Default Re: MTRX Studio with Dante on the secondary Ethernet port on an unmanaged switch?

FWIW, I run normal network traffic, EuCon, Dante and AVB all on a single VLAN and haven't had any problems.
__________________
https://lukehoward.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-02-2021, 07:44 PM
JCBigler's Avatar
JCBigler JCBigler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 3,009
Default Re: MTRX Studio with Dante on the secondary Ethernet port on an unmanaged switch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeHoward View Post
FWIW, I run normal network traffic, EuCon, Dante and AVB all on a single VLAN and haven't had any problems.
You're running Dante and AVB on the same network? The two are not supposed to coexist.
__________________
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

Lenovo P50: quad-core i7-6820hq, 64GB, 2TB SSD, Win 10 Pro / Protools vanilla 2022.9
2018 MacBook Pro: six-core i9, 32GB, 1TB, Monterey / HD|Native-TB / Protools Ultimate 2022.9, DAPS, L-ISA Studio

Home/mobile: Focusrite Red 8Pre / Clarett 4Pre / DVS
Road/hotel: Roland OctaCaputre / Apogee One
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MTRX Studio Mac Pro Not in Synch on Dante Network Goombot Pro Tools | MTRX & MTRX Studio 16 08-07-2022 10:02 PM
MTRX Studio with Dante PciE card Goombot Pro Tools | MTRX & MTRX Studio 8 11-07-2021 01:01 PM
MTRX Studio with Dante PCIe in a new Mac Pro joepopp Pro Tools | MTRX & MTRX Studio 5 04-30-2021 05:00 AM
MTRX Studio doesn't show up in Dante Cheesehead Pro Tools | MTRX & MTRX Studio 5 12-02-2020 09:02 PM
MTRX Studio and DANTE virtual sound card alvarodeiscar Pro Tools | MTRX & MTRX Studio 12 10-12-2020 02:57 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:53 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com