Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Hardware > Pro Tools | Sync X & SYNC HD

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-17-2023, 07:48 PM
Goombot Goombot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 434
Default MTRX2 word clock v Sync X word clock

I have a MTRX2 and a Sync X and I'm wondering if there is any information about the different clock sources. I'm assuming the MTRX2 has the DAD clock and the Sync X is an Avid design. Is there an optimal or preferred master clock in this situation? I'm assuming most would generate word from the Sync X and distribute it but in this situation with just an Avid MTRX and Sync X should the MTRX be the master? Or... does it just not matter? :)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-17-2023, 09:45 PM
its2loud its2loud is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,358
Default Re: MTRX2 word clock v Sync X word clock

Sync X should be the master. Otherwise there’s no point in having it.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-17-2023, 10:01 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,670
Default Re: MTRX2 word clock v Sync X word clock

Is there any point in having it? What are you using the Sync X for? Or is this an extension of a don't have DigiLink so can't get edge sync discussions? If so then toss the Sync X.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-17-2023, 11:37 PM
BScout BScout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 4,220
Default Re: MTRX2 word clock v Sync X word clock

Sync X pretty much exists only for satellite link/frame edge.

For the MTRX/MTRX 2, I would use the internal clock and feed the Sync X the signal as the master. OR, set the MTRX to internal and have it only reference the word clock input coming from the Sync X.
Either way.
(In both cases, the MTRX runs on its own clock)

Personally, my systems are set to internal clock on the MTRX, MTRX reference clock is digilink, SyncX/SyncHD get their clock from the MTRX word clock output.
That way the whole system adjusts depending on the sample rate of the session I open. I can flip to a 48k session or a 96k session and all the devices change together.
__________________
Pro Tools Ult 2024.3.1, HDX 2, MTRX/SPQ, RME BBF Pro + MADIface ProS1 x 2, Fire Max11 x 2, Dock, iPad Air5 Mac Mini 14,12, 12 core, macOS 13.6.6RAM 32GB, SSD 4TB, GPU 19 coreQNAP TVS-872XT 148TB TB3
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-18-2023, 06:43 AM
gives's Avatar
gives gives is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,851
Default Re: MTRX2 word clock v Sync X word clock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goombot View Post
I have a MTRX2 and a Sync X and I'm wondering if there is any information about the different clock sources. I'm assuming the MTRX2 has the DAD clock and the Sync X is an Avid design. Is there an optimal or preferred master clock in this situation? I'm assuming most would generate word from the Sync X and distribute it but in this situation with just an Avid MTRX and Sync X should the MTRX be the master? Or... does it just not matter? :)

SYNC X is an excellent master clock and video reference generator + positional reference peripheral. It’s a great solution for locking multiple Pro Tools workstations (re-recording), digital devices (reverbs and external converters), and various video devices together. It’s essential when using multiple Pro Tools Ultimate (HDX) systems locked together and especially those that need Satellite Link. Also, video peripherals can be handy, especially if you intend on splitting / multing the video signal to talent in a booth for ADR / etc, and also need to playback to a large projector in the room. Besides your primary MTRX device, are there any other devices you need to resolve to the same clock? It doesn’t seem like this is something you need in your current environment.
I have an MTRXII now and had an MTRX and the clock it very accurate. Needing Sync Edge is the key, which most people don't. I found this article that might explain it more possibly: https://www.production-expert.com/pr...%20edge%20sync.
__________________
Composer/Sound Designer/Protools 2024.3 Ultimate, MTRXII-TB3, DADMAN MOM, Cisco SG350-10MP EthernetHUB, KLANG:quelle 4 Channel Dante™Headphone Amp, DVS,MADI, Mac Studio Ultra,128 RAM/4TB SSD, Ventura 13.6.6, DP 11.3.1, Logic Pro X 10.8.1 DOLBY ATMOS Facility/MPSE Motion Picture Sound Editors Avid Certified Professional ProTools/Dolby ATMOS
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-21-2023, 10:37 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: old europe
Posts: 5,995
Default Re: MTRX2 word clock v Sync X word clock

Quote:
Originally Posted by gives View Post
I have an MTRXII now and had an MTRX and the clock it very accurate. Needing Sync Edge is the key, which most people don't. I found this article that might explain it more possibly: https://www.production-expert.com/pr...%20edge%20sync.
The article is helpful but the illustration is missing the completely essential cable connection from the clock generator to the video hardware. Without it the whole setup is pretty much pointless as only the audio side is being clocked/locked but not the picture.
__________________
PTHDn 2024.3.1 (OSX13.6.6), 8x8x8, MacPro 14,8, Decklink SDI 4k, SYNC HD, Nanosyncs HD, 64GB RAM, Xilica Neutrino, Meyersound Acheron

Last edited by Frank Kruse; 08-21-2023 at 10:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-21-2023, 11:21 AM
Goombot Goombot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 434
Default Re: MTRX2 word clock v Sync X word clock

I have a Blackmagic Ultra Studio mini 4k for that.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-21-2023, 03:27 PM
gives's Avatar
gives gives is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,851
Default Re: MTRX2 word clock v Sync X word clock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
The article is helpful but the illustration is missing the completely essential cable connection from the clock generator to the video hardware. Without it the whole setup is pretty much pointless as only the audio side is being clocked/locked but not the picture.
My bad, I should have read thru it. But was on a 5 EPI show and had no time last week. It's a speedy thing to upgrade and one I have avoided here for now. For my room I did plan this, but in the end did not really see the need quite yet. My stuff all gets done somewhere else.

When using an external renderer, you would be using the Sync X to output Word Clock to the MTRX (as it doesn’t have loop sync), the MTRX would also be master of the Dante Network Clock, or provide WC to an external renderer that uses MADI. the Video peripheral would receive Video Reference from the Sync X.
The advantage is that all devices are now resolved to the same clock, running at the same speed (speed reference).
LTC would be sourced from the Sync X for the external renderer (positional reference)

In this setup, all parts of the system will run at the exact same speed, and video playback will not drift.
When using the internal renderer, as you are now, using the Dolby Audio Bridge, will not allow you to use your HD Native Thunderbolt as playback engine, which also disqualifies the Sync X from being used. So there is no way of getting video and audio playback to stay in sync. They will drift out of sync eventually.

One solution could be to use the send & return plugins, which would allow you to use the HD Native and Sync X and a connected Video Peripheral to get frame edge aligned video playback, but the drawback is that there is no Automatic Delay Compensation…
If you are mixing channel based formats, such as stereo, 5.1 and 7.1 where video and audio can’t drift apart, getting the sync X and a video peripheral is great. To be able to use a similar configuration with Dolby Atmos, however, will be VERY expensive as you’d need all of this:

2 HDX cards to output 128 channels of audio
128 channels of MADI or Dante on your MTRX
1 RMW with 128 MADI or Dante channels
Avid Sync X
Video Peripheral .. I like the AJA stuff!

https://www.aja.com

The inexpensive way is using the internal renderer.

If most of your work is channel based Post, where perfect sync between video and audio is critical, I’d be looking at Sync X and a Video peripheral. When mixing odd projects in Atmos, I’d use the Dolby Audio Bridge on an internal renderer.
IF you do a lot of work for example in Dolby Atmos, you might need to start thinking about an external renderer, and then you’ve got the sync x and video peripheral in place.

G
__________________
Composer/Sound Designer/Protools 2024.3 Ultimate, MTRXII-TB3, DADMAN MOM, Cisco SG350-10MP EthernetHUB, KLANG:quelle 4 Channel Dante™Headphone Amp, DVS,MADI, Mac Studio Ultra,128 RAM/4TB SSD, Ventura 13.6.6, DP 11.3.1, Logic Pro X 10.8.1 DOLBY ATMOS Facility/MPSE Motion Picture Sound Editors Avid Certified Professional ProTools/Dolby ATMOS

Last edited by gives; 08-22-2023 at 08:05 AM. Reason: change word
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-22-2023, 09:49 AM
Goombot Goombot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 434
Default Re: MTRX2 word clock v Sync X word clock

Quote:
Originally Posted by gives View Post
My bad, I should have read thru it. But was on a 5 EPI show and had no time last week. It's a speedy thing to upgrade and one I have avoided here for now. For my room I did plan this, but in the end did not really see the need quite yet. My stuff all gets done somewhere else.

When using an external renderer, you would be using the Sync X to output Word Clock to the MTRX (as it doesn’t have loop sync), the MTRX would also be master of the Dante Network Clock, or provide WC to an external renderer that uses MADI. the Video peripheral would receive Video Reference from the Sync X.
The advantage is that all devices are now resolved to the same clock, running at the same speed (speed reference).
LTC would be sourced from the Sync X for the external renderer (positional reference)

In this setup, all parts of the system will run at the exact same speed, and video playback will not drift.
When using the internal renderer, as you are now, using the Dolby Audio Bridge, will not allow you to use your HD Native Thunderbolt as playback engine, which also disqualifies the Sync X from being used. So there is no way of getting video and audio playback to stay in sync. They will drift out of sync eventually.

One solution could be to use the send & return plugins, which would allow you to use the HD Native and Sync X and a connected Video Peripheral to get frame edge aligned video playback, but the drawback is that there is no Automatic Delay Compensation…
If you are mixing channel based formats, such as stereo, 5.1 and 7.1 where video and audio can’t drift apart, getting the sync X and a video peripheral is great. To be able to use a similar configuration with Dolby Atmos, however, will be VERY expensive as you’d need all of this:

2 HDX cards to output 128 channels of audio
128 channels of MADI or Dante on your MTRX
1 RMW with 128 MADI or Dante channels
Avid Sync X
Video Peripheral .. I like the AJA stuff!

https://www.aja.com

The inexpensive way is using the internal renderer.

If most of your work is channel based Post, where perfect sync between video and audio is critical, I’d be looking at Sync X and a Video peripheral. When mixing odd projects in Atmos, I’d use the Dolby Audio Bridge on an internal renderer.
IF you do a lot of work for example in Dolby Atmos, you might need to start thinking about an external renderer, and then you’ve got the sync x and video peripheral in place.

G
Thanks for the detailed response. So what I'm planning on adding to my MTRX2 is the thunderbolt option card and the new Focusrite PCIe Dante card. I was planning on having the thunderbolt be the main playback engine and the Dante card as the routing to the renderer 128 back and forth and having the sync setup left alone. Is there any reason that won't work? Sorry for not being clear about my future purchases.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-22-2023, 10:14 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,358
Default Re: MTRX2 word clock v Sync X word clock

Goombot,

If you’re using the MTRX via Thunderbolt you don’t need the rednet PCI Dante card. You just route everything through DADMan if you’re using a Dolby Renderer on the same system.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PT8//Word Clock//Loop Sync//Big Ben whatsprotools Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 13 02-27-2009 10:56 AM
Word clock sync goga 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 4 08-11-2008 11:28 AM
Has anyone got a 003r to sync via word clock? amverdile 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 4 05-16-2007 09:44 PM
L2 won't sync to 192 Word Clock Studio Dweller Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 5 10-23-2003 06:50 AM
Sync / word clock help needed stufflake Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 4 12-08-2000 12:26 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:20 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com