Printing and doubling tracks--alighnment?

[ishur]

This question is a little different than the aux bus question on another thread, but similar. Suppose I send a track to an outboard hardware unit via inserts, so it come back in properly compensated for. Then suppose I want to print that track and use it along with the original (thus also freeing up the outboard gear for use on a different track). Presumably the act of printing the track will result in an audio file that is out of alignment with the original track (since you have to bus it). How do I then align the two tracks to use them together? Or if I simply bounce the original track to disk instead of bussing it does that avoid the issue?

Thanks.

[EGS]

How do I then align the two tracks to use them together?

Zoom-in to sample level and slide the late track back.

[jeremyroberts]

Presumably the act of printing the track will result in an audio file that is out of alignment with the original track (since you have to bus it).

Incorrect. If you use ADC, your printed track will be aligned. That's the point of ADC. Try it!

[ishur]

Really? Excellent. So I really am getting my money's worth from TDM.

Thanks, Jeremy.

Irwin

[scottgreiner]

Oh golly - big can of worms. There are many possible ways to do this depending on what outcome you'd like. I like to catch everything up to, and including the hardware insert; and leave everything after it in place. Makes recalls easy and doesn't lock me in too much.

If you leave ADC on, your printed tracks will be ahead by whatever the round trip conversion is plus the plugin delay from any plugins before the insert. Without ADC, they'll be behind. There's a one sample difference between fully disabling ADC in the menu, and disabling just the single channel with control/command click...

Personally I find all this to be too much to chase. I just zoom in, make a hard DC tick with the pecil tool in the original track. Then I use this to re-align the "frozen" track. Multi-mic'd stuff is more subjective (like a kick drum that's been processed with outboard). Sometimes the "frozen" track just doesn't sit the same as the the original...

Phase is a b*tch isn't it?

[scottgreiner]

Incorrect. If you use ADC, your printed track will be aligned. That's the point of ADC. Try it!

depends on how you print it. It's a little more complicated than that...

[ishur]

Can you elaborate, Scott? Was I correct originally, that bouncing the track to disk would not result in a delay but using a bus would?

This is definitely confusing...

[jeremyroberts]

Well, I have lost my confidence in ADC.

Someone please tell me what i am doing wrong here...

The test - working at 44.1:

1. Make a mono track. Put a 1 sample event in it, starting at 88200 samples. bus the output of this track to...
2. make a mono aux. put an insert across it -- 192 analog out hardwired to 192 analog in. buss the output of this aux to track 2.
3. record the event, now bussed to an aux and routed to an insert, back to track 2.

track 2 is now 1 sample earlier than the original source.

Test, part 2:

4. make a mono track, call it track 3. route output of track 1 to input of track 3 via a mono bus.
5. record.

track 3 is now 83 samples EARLIER than the original source.

I did this test 3 times. All results were the same.

ADC was enabled (long).
PT 7.3.1cs2
192 interface (stock)

Am I not understanding what ADC does here? I just assumed that it would time correct these basic paths???

There were NO plugins of any kind in the session. The "insert" was a hard patch from analog out to analog in.

What am I missing here?

Anyone care to take 3 minutes and replicate this test for yourself?

[Craig F]

do you have the Compensate for Delay toggled on in the I/O Setup Input page?
I'm thinking that ADC is double compensating if it is on

[jeremyroberts]

do you have the Compensate for Delay toggled on in the I/O Setup Input page?
I'm thinking that ADC is double compensating if it is on

no, it was off.

I repeated all the tests with the 'compensate for delay" enabled:

test1: instead of 1 sample early, it is now 15 samples late
test2: instead of 83 samples early, it's now 1 sample early

My expectations were zero samples.

I need a tutorial here of what to expect, what ADC does, doesn't do, and ask, does the emperor have any clothes? I don't see that he's wearing any right now.

Someone else care to take 3 minutes and confirm/deny my tests?

Danny -- can you or one of your esteemed colleagues please clarify ADC and expectations -- I did this testing years ago -- and it came back 0 and 0. Something is not working as I think it's supposed to. Either that, or the spec has changed. Either that or our expectations have changed... or something. Guidance please?