To get new monitors...or not?????

[funkpolbrother]

Hey there....I'd like some advice on what to do as far as my monitors are concerned....I work in Post, and for the past year or so I've been trying to get some side work at home. I've been purchasing gear to get me going...basically doing radio spots for a few clients, and occasionally a tv spot, or even radio dramas. I bought a pair of Alesis M1 mkII's last year as "starter monitors"...based on reviews, etc.... Recently, I've been thinking of upgrading to something a little more "true"...also, I'd like to buy a pair of monitors that I can grow with (something that will be around for sometime to come, and that is an "industry standard").

I've been looking at Genelec 8020a's since I'm very familiar with their 8050's and 8030's (at my "regular" job)...Also, it's pretty obvious Genelecs are going to be around for a while. I'm not looking to spend too much $$$ right now...but the 8020's would be within my price range (about $750)...I'd love to add a Sub, just can't afford it/justify it right now.

My question is, would you just "stick it out" with the Alesis for a while, since my clients haven't much work for me right now....or should I go for the Genelecs...get used to them....and eventually add a Sub.....and 5.1 system?

Thanks in advance!!!

[audiogeek1]

For me if the money was there I would get the Genelecs. They will be a great surround set for you. I like to have multiple sets of monitors to work on. I mostly to TV post and I use Genelec S30s and Tannoy NFM 8s for my stereo and Genelec 1037s for my surround work. I also have my Euphonix console routed to my tv so I can monitor on the internal speaker in it.

The biggest thing you need is to just understand the monitors. This is more important than anything else in my opinion.

Mike

[EarHole]

You might want to check out the Blue Skyy set up...
I intsalled a 5.1 set up about six months ago and am pretty happy with it.
They have a great controller with base management features as well.
I do TV post as well and have found them to translate well. They are also easy on the ears. I've always found Genelecs a little harsh on the high end for my tastes.

I've also heard great thigs about the Dynaudios...

[Frank Kruse]

you find the bluesky less harsh on the high end? interesting...

keep in mind that the bluesky system can only be operated with the sub-woofer because the sats are cut off at 80Hz.
especially in small room a satellite systeme can be very difficult to control because of room modes etc. You might be better off with full-range monitors.

frank.

[abluesky]

Hello Frank:

I hope you and others here don't mind me chiming in...

...Becuase, I must say that I don't think you are correct about small rooms and subwoofers. First, let me say that room acoustics, how they affect the response of a monitoring system, are highly complex and acoustic treatment is always a good idea.

However, when you have 5 separate quasi full-range speakers, you will not get consistent response between each speaker (especially in a small room), because LF performance (below 100Hz or so) will be greatly influenced by where each speakers is placed in the room (more about this below). Bass performance will vary greatly between channels and it is likely that mixes will not translate very well.

The benefit of having a subwoofer / bass-managed system, is that you can place the LF source in the best location, for the smoothest response, at the listening position. A bass-managed system also has additional benefits, that include smaller main speakers, that are easier to place, better LF response / extension, reduced inter-modulation distortion and more repeatable LF response from room to room (small or large).

The point about "more repeatable LF response from room to room" is one that people often don't fully understand, or overlook completely. However, how low frequencies sum, from two or more sources, will depend greatly on room acoustics, the relative distances between the speakers, the relationship between the speakers and the boundaries in the room, which speakers are playing, what the phase relationship between these signals are, and where the listener is in relation to the speakers in the room. These factors are highly complex and will be different from room to room and will vary greatly between Mix A and Mix B.

Electrical summation of the LF signals (as is done with bass-management), is a very predictable and repeatable way to get consistent LF response. LF phase issues between channels are resolved in the most absolute and accurate way - electrically. As a general rule, we recommend bass-management in any professional recording studio that is creating content for direct consumer consumption (music, broadcast, radio, DVD etc.).

In large rooms, such as movie theaters, these summation issues become less of a problem, because the main problem in a big room is reverberation time (RT60) and not LF room modes (standing waves etc). However, even in a large room bass-management can help ensure better LF translation between spaces.

I hope that explains our views on this...

Cheers!

[MusoPro]

Hi,
I have a 5.1 setup using the Genelec 8030's with the 7060A Sub and it's fantastic.
The only thing I can tell you that it will take some time to get used to them. I wasing using KRK's before I bought the Genelecs and I didn't realize how much colorization the KRK's gave me. Genelecs give you a very flat sound. What I do know is that my mixes now tranfer very well to a multitude of systems. What you hear is what you get with Genelec. With either the 8020's or the 8030's you will definitley need the Sub.The frequency range of the 8020's will be lacking without it. I'm not sure that the Sub that comes with the 8020 set comes with Bass Management. You will obviously need that if you are going to mix 5.1.

Good Luck,
Mitch

[Frank Kruse]

8020 set comes with Bass Management. You will obviously need that if you are going to mix 5.1.

why does one "need" bass management to mix 5.1? In a movie theater the front speakers are full-range. Only in dolby stero SR mode of the cinema processor the woofer signal is "extracted" from the front. or?



frank.

[minister]

why does one "need" bass management to mix 5.1? In a movie theater the front speakers are full-range. Only in dolby stero SR mode of the cinema processor the woofer signal is "extracted" from the front. or?

hi frank,

it is a function of certain playback systems,. like blue sky. not a mix thing.

with these systems, in order for them to operate as full range, they need to bass manage. the satellites have cutoffs (as part of the speaker design) that don't allow full range. with a system like a blue sky, there is not a problem sending your LFE channel information (not the SUB, but the defined Low Freq channel in your mix) out into such a system. the satt's are base managed and the LFE channel info goes to the SUB and so you get all frequencies represented. yes, the LF content of the LCRS, below the cutoff point, actually plays in the SUB, but the system is well integrated and accurate enough (i am told) that your mixes will translate no problem. it is simply that the speakers that play the LCRS in your 5.1 do not have the bottom for it, so they direct it to the sub. you mix as normal, and the playback system does its thing to represent what you are sending it (despite the fact that you are not bass managing the mix)

does that explain?

if not, look up pascal's posts on bass management.

but, yes, film mixes are not bass managed. and most stages and mix facilities have full range speakers. so their monitor systems do not bass manage the mix.

[Frank Kruse]

tom, I am aware of everything you wrote. I was just wondering about the statement that you "need" bassmanagement to mix 5.1. I think it was a general statement that didn´t refer to the sat-systems.

frank.

[MusoPro]

Frank,
To be clear.

If you read the sentence I wrote before the one you quoted I explained that those particular speakers do not have the proper bass response to mix productivly for 5.1 or for some Stereo mixes for that matter.
You will need the bass management that comes with the Sub that directs any frequency either below 85 Hz or 120 Hz depending on where you set it to the Sub. I send my mix into the 7060A then through the 7060A to the speakers. This way my LFE is channeled to my Sub which my 8030's couldn't handle.

Hope that clear things up. If you have full range speakers, Go for it! He was asking about the 8020's in particular.

I also do a lot of mixing for DVD-Video which will be most likely be viewed on a 5.1 consumer system which usually automatically sends Low Freq to the Sub anyway. Thus I have a good reference.
I still take the mixes home to check it though on a prosumer system.

All the best,
Mitch