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Old 02-10-2021, 03:25 PM
Shazamm Shazamm is offline
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 11
Default Tempo mapping - maintain groove - best method?

Hey all.

Wondering how to go about taking a demo recording - single audio file -
to have the grid match it -

I've done this before and it's a lot of hassle using identify beat for something recorded without a click to then adjust the tempo map- to tidy it up and tempo lock it

There must be another method using elastic audio and tempo mapping to work better?

And maintaining the groove btw*
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Old 02-10-2021, 09:38 PM
HurtMesaMusic's Avatar
HurtMesaMusic HurtMesaMusic is offline
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Near Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 45
Default Re: Tempo mapping - maintain groove - best method?

I’m reading that you have two goals, matching the grid to the track, and then changing the tempi to tidy things up. Is this correct? Like you, I haven’t had luck with Identity Beat. Identify beat works on material with clear transients, and unsyncopated beats.

In my experience, I have better results manually identifying the tempi of short sections, like 8, 4 or 2 bars. The end result would be a grid that matches your track. The advantage would be so you could add midi tracks or follow a click for recording real instruments. Elastic audio is not a part of this process yet. Audio tracks are set to Samples so the grid changes “behind” the audio.

If you want to change the tempo of several sections of the track, that’s where EA comes in. You probably know all of this, I’m just trying to be clear.

So, my workflow has been like this. Duplicate the track if the beat is not sold or clear in the intro. Make sure the track is set to samples. Cut off the intro to wherever there’s a clear beat, and trim it to the transient of the downbeat. Slide the track all the way left to measure one, beat one.

Use tap to tempo with the tempo number highlighted in the transport window. Type enter and see how well the grid lines up with the transients. If you can’t see transients, then add a click track and listen for a tempo match.

When you get a good tempo for the first section, you’ll want to go back to the original track if you chopped the intro. Give your clip a measure or two of space for roll in or in case you need room to the left.

Depending on the performance, you’ll have to add tempo changes every few bars or so. When you see that the grid (or hear that the click) falls behind or ahead of the beat, back up a measure and add a tempo change. Try to add them only on downbeats or at least on quarter note beats.

Save your session a lot, like all the time.

When you add the second tempo change, notice that you can click and slide the numbers up or down, and the grid expands and contracts. Visual alignment is faster than listening to the click. Repeat as necessary for the whole track. Check the whole track by ear with a click.

When the grid and clicks are tight with the audio, you can enable EA, real-time polyphonic. Switch the track from samples to ticks.

Back to your goal of tidying things up. If you have only a few tempo changes, you can adjust each by a few bpm towards each other for less variance and more realism. Or you can delete all but the first tempo and experiment with one tempo. If you had tempo changes only on downbeats, the groove won’t be affected.

My last steps are to change realtime EA to Xform. When that’s done processing, disable Xform and commit the track in the Xform dialog box. If you’re still experimenting with tempi, duplicate the track first.

Hope this helps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Old 02-11-2021, 10:49 AM
Shazamm Shazamm is offline
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 11
Default Re: Tempo mapping - maintain groove - best method?

Thanks for the very detailed reply

This is exactly what I do also too!

I have found what I'm noticing is when I say use identify beats say for beats 1 to beats 3,
the looseness or groove of the guide recording is what I'm losing in between these markers!

The click aligns up with the beats but the inbetween the click is not locked with the track - and this is off putting then when layering new parts and the feel is not really there.
The instruments are fighting each other - rhythm wise

I've used elastic audio - and when the guide track is warped to locations, it feels better, and can be locked to the click, but then I've adjusted the tempo too much and lose the original tempo as the guide tracks were not played to a click.

I've read about some people setting warp markers at the start and end and adjusting in the middle to do this but I've not had much luck with that.

When using the identify beat - I've gone very detailed and used finer increments and tempo mapped each beat, and while its a little better, groove wise, its still varying and fighting with the click on and doesnt sound so good..

There must be a way to use elastic audio to tidy each bit up and maintain this tightness and groove along with the mapping?!
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Old 02-11-2021, 01:09 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 36,564
Default Re: Tempo mapping - maintain groove - best method?

This is the reason for recording to a click track
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, Presonus Studio 1810C

I started in this business with nothing..........and I have most of it left

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
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