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  #1  
Old 10-22-2005, 02:50 AM
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crizdee crizdee is offline
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Default RTAS in 7 = half price plugins, WAVES/URS etc

Hi,

With PT 7 coming soon! and with RTAS processinf being available on aux and master faders!? i have re-thought my plugin purchases slightly. to quote just two manufacturers; Waves and URS both do NATIVE(RTAS) versions of there plugins for approx half price or less! of the TDM versions!!£$£$£$

So, i have purchased Waves musician bundle native for $200, yes $200 for 5 waves plugins (Renaissance Axx, Ren Vox, SuperTap, Doubler and MetaFlanger) all work great on audio tracks right now and will work on aux and master tracks in PT 7.

I'm also looking at URS classic console compressors? again half prive for native(RTAS) versions £$£$£$ these compressors are great, but tdm $900 agains rtas $450 well, thats quite a difference.

I hope i'm reading it right? optimized RTAS plugs are required for the performance gains! but our normal perviously owned RTAS will still work ok in the aux and master channels in 7!!!!!

Thoughts?

Chris
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2005, 05:06 AM
BigBadBill BigBadBill is offline
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Default Re: RTAS in 7 = half price plugins, WAVES/URS etc

Will a TDM version and an RTAS version of the same plugin sound EXACTLY the same? I seem to remember reading something
somewhere about RTAS sounding slightly inferior.

But I may well have dreamt this.

Can anyone correct me?
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  #3  
Old 10-22-2005, 05:47 AM
zboy2854 zboy2854 is offline
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Default Re: RTAS in 7 = half price plugins, WAVES/URS etc

There has been discussion that since the coding for TDM and RTAS are different on account of the architecture differences, there can be a discrepancy, although I seem to recall there being some disagreement on which one sounded better, and not necessarily the TDM ones always.

In any case, I do think Chris is onto something that is worth mentioning. With the power that native processing is achieving (with quad core machines, etc.), it does seem to me that Accel cards and TDM plugs are no longer really necessary. Just use an HD Core card to handle the I/O, PDC, latency issues and mix engine, and let the supercomputer's CPUs handle the plugins (aside from the TDM only plugs like Cranesong Phoenix, etc.)
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Old 10-22-2005, 06:39 AM
jeremyroberts jeremyroberts is offline
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Default Re: RTAS in 7 = half price plugins, WAVES/URS etc

Chris,

Until I use rtas on an aux in realtime while tracking, there are certain plugs that if given the choice of a TDM vs rtas, tdm will still win for latency issues, etc...

I just bought GTR/tdm knowing that I could save about $350 (street) by buying rtas only... word from people I trust: tracking guitar in the tdm version feels tighter than rtas. So it wasn't worth trying it out... my talent had no issues. I couldn't risk it.

I keep a very tight chain for tracking and do not use plugs when I can use outboard...

However, you bring up a great point...

We'll have to analyze the price differential for each type of plug and for some plugs, the market may force parity in pricing... for others, a premium for TDM may be warranted if functionality is superior and the company can get away with the premium.
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  #5  
Old 10-22-2005, 09:09 AM
Hive Guy Hive Guy is offline
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Default Re: RTAS in 7 = half price plugins, WAVES/URS etc

Quote:

In any case, I do think Chris is onto something that is worth mentioning. With the power that native processing is achieving (with quad core machines, etc.), it does seem to me that Accel cards and TDM plugs are no longer really necessary. Just use an HD Core card to handle the I/O, PDC, latency issues and mix engine, and let the supercomputer's CPUs handle the plugins (aside from the TDM only plugs like Cranesong Phoenix, etc.)
A consideration not mentioned here is plug-in order. Unless I've missed something in the PT7 info released so far, RTAS plugs will still have to come before TDM's, whether on audio tracks or aux's/master. This is an important consideration--do you want EQ pre or post comp; if you have something like an Oxford Inflator or a limiter on your master rail, you'll certainly want it at the end of the chain; do you want to compress after Pheonix or before?

Just another thing to keep in mind when going for the cheaper RTAS only versions...
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Old 10-22-2005, 09:34 AM
zboy2854 zboy2854 is offline
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Default Re: RTAS in 7 = half price plugins, WAVES/URS etc

Quote:


A consideration not mentioned here is plug-in order. Unless I've missed something in the PT7 info released so far, RTAS plugs will still have to come before TDM's, whether on audio tracks or aux's/master. This is an important consideration--do you want EQ pre or post comp; if you have something like an Oxford Inflator or a limiter on your master rail, you'll certainly want it at the end of the chain; do you want to compress after Pheonix or before?

Just another thing to keep in mind when going for the cheaper RTAS only versions...
According to those who were at AES, PT7 will allow you to mix and match the order of TDM and RTAS, making it a moot point.

http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.p...fpart=1#892383
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Old 10-22-2005, 10:06 AM
Jon_Atkinson Jon_Atkinson is offline
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Default Re: RTAS in 7 = half price plugins, WAVES/URS etc

I believe PT7 will expect to see an RTAS plug first..... In which case simply insert a Trim plug in RTAS before inserting a TDM plug.
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  #8  
Old 10-22-2005, 10:43 AM
zboy2854 zboy2854 is offline
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Default Re: RTAS in 7 = half price plugins, WAVES/URS etc

Quote:
I believe PT7 will expect to see an RTAS plug first..... In which case simply insert a Trim plug in RTAS before inserting a TDM plug.
Where did you hear/see that? I know that is the protocol to follow if you want to be able to monitor an RTAS plug on a live track while recording, but everything I've heard points to PT7 not being restricted to plugin order when mixing.
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  #9  
Old 10-22-2005, 11:51 AM
Rail Jon Rogut Rail Jon Rogut is offline
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Default Re: RTAS in 7 = half price plugins, WAVES/URS etc

Quote:
I believe PT7 will expect to see an RTAS plug first..... In which case simply insert a Trim plug in RTAS before inserting a TDM plug.
I think you're confused -- I posted before about RTAS plug-ins and record armed tracks...

If an RTAS plug-in is before any TDM plug-in then it'll bypass when the track is record armed. If you place a TRIM (or any other TDM) plug-in before the RTAS plug-in then the following RTAS plug-ins won't go to bypass if the track is record armed. While you can mix and match RTAS and TDM.. it'll be best if you follow all of one type with the other.. don't go TDM->RTAS->TDM, but rather TDM->RTAS->RTAS or TDM->TDM->RTAS.

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  #10  
Old 10-22-2005, 12:40 PM
iamnerdyrocker iamnerdyrocker is offline
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Default Re: RTAS in 7 = half price plugins, WAVES/URS etc

I was under the impression that the order law stays the same but you can now use RTAS on Aux and Master fader tracks where as before PT7 you cannot do that. That eliminates the need for HTDM plugins.

If you place an RTAS plugin after a TDM, here is the audio signal flow...

Hard Drive -- TDM Plugin (on the TDM card) -- RTAS (on the CPU) -- the Mixer (TDM Card) -- TDM Card to Audio Interface.
That was the whole point of NOT being able to use RTAS after TDM. It would have to go to the TDM card, back to the CPU, then back to the TDM card.

Correct me if I am wrong but that is the understanding I am under.
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