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  #1  
Old 11-26-2007, 10:32 PM
Steve MacMillan Steve MacMillan is offline
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Default Tab to transient on Elastic Audio tracks

When I was trying to figure out the best way to use Elastic Audio to correct a multi channel drum performance, I noticed that Tab To Transient didn't work on an Elastic Audio track even in waveform view. I was surprised today when I saw somebody doing just that, so I thought I would have a closer look.

What really happens is that even in the waveform view, tab finds the next Analysis Marker. So if you have auto created Analysis markers, tab to transient is going to look like its working. If you delete the Analysis markers (because you are going to manually enter your own), then tab to transient doesn't work in waveform view, and instead jumps to the end of the region.

As I posted earlier, I'm glad that you can tab thru your Analysis markers. But tab to transient should work as it always has in the waveform view. And becaude there are times when you want total control over Analysis Marker placement, there should be a way to tab to transient in Analysis view, and then a hot key for creating an Analysis marker at the cursor. Likewise there should also be a hot key for creating a warp marker at the cursor.

STeve
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Old 11-27-2007, 07:50 AM
Produce_Dept Produce_Dept is offline
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Default Re: Tab to transient on Elastic Audio tracks

I found the same thing yesterday while trying to edit drums. At first, I thought Tab to Transient was working, but at times the behavior was really strange which made me investigate.
It seems to me that Tab to Transient should at least work properly while in waveform view.


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  #3  
Old 11-27-2007, 11:54 AM
SessionKat SessionKat is offline
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Default Re: Tab to transient on Elastic Audio tracks

Quick question folks:

What is the reason(s) that you're finding yourselves needing to edit the analysis manually? Is this mainly tied to offset transient markers in multi-track (drums), and the like? Have you tried Sensitivity adjust in EA Properties?

Thanks,

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Old 11-27-2007, 01:00 PM
Steve MacMillan Steve MacMillan is offline
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Default Re: Tab to transient on Elastic Audio tracks

Quote:
Quick question folks:

What is the reason(s) that you're finding yourselves needing to edit the analysis manually? Is this mainly tied to offset transient markers in multi-track (drums), and the like? Have you tried Sensitivity adjust in EA Properties?

Thanks,

-tv
Hi Tim,

There are certainly times when you want the tightest correction possible. Either the feel of the song demands it, or you are layering drums with loops and samples and want the least amount of slop, so you have the most amount of punch. I've been expected to do this either manually or thru Beat Detective for years.

I have played with the Elastic Properties threshold settings and they work as well as I could possibly expect. Setting the threshold and getting the auto created Analysis markers as good as they can get is a great place to start. But for the tightest possible correction some editing is needed. I find that the auto created markers are perfect about 50% of the time, exactly where I would put them. The next 35% of the time they are within 10 samples of perfect (which is way good enough unless you are stacking sounds). The next 10% are well off the mark, usually because of some false transient in the waveform like leakage. And the last 5% are just really wrong and need to be killed (many times you will not see this at all). If because of how I set the EA threshold, I might have a section or a fill that did not get enough markers. This is when it would be a time saver if I could use the normal tab to transient to manually enter markers for those bits with a hot key. So I find myself limiting my Analysis markers to only the drums I wish to correct to (like kick and snare only) eliminating the markers for room leakage that may be way late to the kick or snare and affect warp placement. Then I'm tabbing thru my Analysis markers and moving the ones I need to, so the Warp Markers can take care of themselves. I want the fastest tools to do this.

Just the way it works quick and dirty sounds great, it works fast and is going to be enough for many people. Sometimes I like the random slop of midi etc. But the randomness of auto Analysis creation is not about the desirable looseness of the drummer, but rather the looseness of the algorithm. The beauty of the sample accurate editing in ProTools is if you need to be as accurate as possible you can do it. ProTools should embrace the manual tweakheads not force us to come up with elaborate workarounds to achieve our tweakdome.

STeve
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Old 11-27-2007, 02:26 PM
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PaulV PaulV is offline
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Default Re: Tab to transient on Elastic Audio tracks

Hi there,

So if I'm understanding you correctly, your main trouble is that when you lower the sensitivity threshold you lose some of the analysis markers that are actually good, and you want to quickly put these back.

The first thing that comes to mind here is the fact that any analysis marker that you adjust manually be given a 100% confidence rating, and won't be eliminated when the sensitivity is brought back down. One workflow you could use is that if you notice good transients dropping out when the sensitivity is lowered, raise it back up, then zoom in on the areas in question and use tab to transients to navigate to the transients that are disappearing, and move them into the ideal position. When you lower the sensitivity again, they ought to stay in place.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:50 PM
Steve MacMillan Steve MacMillan is offline
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Default Re: Tab to transient on Elastic Audio tracks


Quote:
The first thing that comes to mind here is the fact that any analysis marker that you adjust manually be given a 100% confidence rating, and won't be eliminated when the sensitivity is brought back down. One workflow you could use is that if you notice good transients dropping out when the sensitivity is lowered, raise it back up, then zoom in on the areas in question and use tab to transients to navigate to the transients that are disappearing, and move them into the ideal position. When you lower the sensitivity again, they ought to stay in place.
Hi Paul,

I didn't realize that Analysis markers could have a confidence rating (which locks a marker from being effected by the sensitivity setting). I played with it and I see how it works. This is cool, and almost takes care of my request in another thread for the sensitivity threshold setting to work seperately across a selection and not just the whole region. It might be good to be able to assign a high confidence rating without having to physically move the marker (select across a bunch of makers and then hit a button on the Elastic Properties window). This would be like locking all of the slices in ReCycle before lowering the thresold. Is there a less than a 100% confidence rating or is it just locked or not?

There are going to be times when totally manual creation of Analysis markers is the ideal. I was working with a Surdo percussion loop, and all I wanted to do was warp on the big bass notes ignoring all of the hi clacky stuff inbetween. There was no setting of the sensitivity that came close to marking only the bass notes and not catching lots of other hits. So the solution was to delete the auto created markers and scrolling thru the loop I manually added my own. The warping worked great, but I ended up using the window scroll bar and the pencil tool to add markers. It would be so much faster to be able to tab to transient and then have a hot key to drop a marker where my cursor sits. I've harped enough about this, email me if you wish talk more about it.

STeve
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2007, 11:36 PM
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PaulV PaulV is offline
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Default Re: Tab to transient on Elastic Audio tracks

Quote:
It might be good to be able to assign a high confidence rating without having to physically move the marker...
That's a good suggestion; we've taken note.
Quote:
There are going to be times when totally manual creation of Analysis markers is the ideal....Surdo...
The input is helpful. We'll take this into consideration too.
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