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  #11  
Old 07-13-2015, 05:23 PM
garnoil garnoil is offline
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Default Re: PT12.1.0 Video Engine Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoorevich View Post
Although, I am on Pro Tools 11.3.1 I honestly gave up on this error and don't believe anymore that Avid capable / aware / able to re-produce / care about this issue.
When I see this error message, I try to relax and don't think about anything negative that can take me out of the creative mood in front of the clients.
When it happens, I just smile and say - Avid.

Here is the video to how to reproduce it in PT 11.3.1
Michael, that video is very "interesting" and it looks like it takes a long time for your Pro-Tools to start playback after you hit play. I am on Pro-Tools 11.3 on a Mac and I have never seen this, and I can not reproduce what you are experiencing. I can move regions around all day in many tracks, all over the place, and my Pro-Tools does not do what you are showing in the video. The only thing that I see, is that, if I am on a 2 hour timeline (a full feature film on one long reel) and I jump from the start of the movie towards the end, it takes a bit for the video to catch up (beach ball for a little while) but never as long as what you are showing. How do you make it do that? are you just moving one small audio region around in the same track and only for a little bit and it does it all the time? how can you work like that, it would be impossible. May be there is something incompatible in your system? this is what I use:

Mac 8 core (old machine 2.25Ghz) with only 12 RAM- I will upgrade this machine soon to 2.90 Gig processors and and get another 12 gigs of ram
SSD systems drive
Firewire 800 for video and separate Firewire 800 for audio
Pro-Res 1920X1080 Proxy
dual desktop 1920X1080 screens out of the back of the Mac
Blackmagic Decklink HD Extreme 3D feeding HDMI to 60" plasma
Pro-tools HDX DSP 11.3.1

I am extremely busy, my machine is on 14 hours a day 7 days a week and overnight it is always backing up.
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  #12  
Old 07-13-2015, 11:29 PM
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mgoorevich mgoorevich is offline
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Default Re: PT12.1.0 Video Engine Problems

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Originally Posted by garnoil View Post
Michael, that video is very "interesting" and it looks like it takes a long time for your Pro-Tools to start playback after you hit play. I am on Pro-Tools 11.3 on a Mac and I have never seen this, and I can not reproduce what you are experiencing. I can move regions around all day in many tracks, all over the place, and my Pro-Tools does not do what you are showing in the video. The only thing that I see, is that, if I am on a 2 hour timeline (a full feature film on one long reel) and I jump from the start of the movie towards the end, it takes a bit for the video to catch up (beach ball for a little while) but never as long as what you are showing. How do you make it do that? are you just moving one small audio region around in the same track and only for a little bit and it does it all the time? how can you work like that, it would be impossible. May be there is something incompatible in your system? this is what I use:

Mac 8 core (old machine 2.25Ghz) with only 12 RAM- I will upgrade this machine soon to 2.90 Gig processors and and get another 12 gigs of ram
SSD systems drive
Firewire 800 for video and separate Firewire 800 for audio
Pro-Res 1920X1080 Proxy
dual desktop 1920X1080 screens out of the back of the Mac
Blackmagic Decklink HD Extreme 3D feeding HDMI to 60" plasma
Pro-tools HDX DSP 11.3.1

I am extremely busy, my machine is on 14 hours a day 7 days a week and overnight it is always backing up.
It happens when I work fast on some dialog or FX/Foley session which asks for region manipulation e.g cutting, moving across both direction, nudging with + and - both direction and then... it happens (this is what I did on the video).
It could be even one track only session or 200 tracks busy feature one.
It will happen only when the Video track presented and will not happen when switching to the desktop video, by hitting Disable Video Hardware in the option menu.

My specs are even outperform yours a bit .
My system is on the SSD (by the OWC) 240GB. For the Video I use a separate WD Black SATA internal drive, for the audio another SATA fast drive. One more SATA for my SFX bank and SATA for the Backups.
Tried brand new drives for video and audio.
I have 24 GB of RAM.
I tried re-installing fresh OS, different versions of OS, fresh PT re-install, all the known troubleshooting have been executed.
The only difference from your mac specs I can see is that I feed the trilevel sync from AJA JEN10 to my Sync HD and AJA LHi video card.
But then, I used in the past all compatible BM cards with even worse results.
If I switch to internal HD interface sync instead of Sync HD the problem persists, so it has nothing to do with my sync boxes.
The video I play is DNxHD 36 8bit 24 or 25 fps 1080p. Same happens with the ProRes.

I feel quite confident with my knowledge of PT systems and troubleshooting of problems.
Thus I agree with you that something or someone (me) is un-compatible, which in my regard become a rhetoric and philosophical rather technical only question.

If this is not the AVE, whats wrong with me guys?!!!

I work with this machine very hard just like you 14-16 hours a day. And the PT 11.3.1 is rock solid but this issue. Never have any other errors but only regarding the video.

I initiated several threads regarding this issue on the DUC in the past, I have been in very long conversation with Avid support team since PT11 was introduced.
I switched every hardware and software piece to check if it affects the performance.

The only conclusion I made after all is that I need to slow down my editing work in order not to make PT AVE stuck.
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Michael Goorevich

Sound Designer
/ mixer
www.goorevich.com

PT HD⎪N v2023.12 Ultimate ● macOS Ventura 13.6.3
MacPro 7.1 (2019) 3.2GHz Intel Xeon W 16-Core ● 96 GB RAM
MTRX Studio + DADman 5.7.0.1 + MOM ● Sync HD ● AJA Kona LHi referenced by AJA GEN10 ● D-Command ES24

Last edited by mgoorevich; 07-13-2015 at 11:41 PM.
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  #13  
Old 07-14-2015, 12:13 AM
Ray JB Ray JB is offline
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Default Re: PT12.1.0 Video Engine Problems

Both your stories are interesting. I can identify with Michael's accounts with my quick cutting stop/start work. But the AVE is very unusual in it's behaviour. Last evening after doing the system rebuild I described earlier I loaded up a new session consisting of 3 stereo guide tracks and a DNx36 picture. I sat and watched the show down (a 27 min reel). All good but then pictures stopped at approximately 10 mins with the usual picture freeze on the frame of AVE breakdown. Sound of course continues playing. No other apps were open. I had simply pressed play and left it going.

My machine has a system SSD (OWC) and the Samsung 500GB video drive and a WD 4TB drive for audio. 32 GB Ram. OS 10.8.5. All permissions repaired. All disks test perfectly via Disk Utility. Blackmagic speed test shows all drives are capable of their advertised data rates. The video drive SSD shows a rate of 270MB/sec reading and 265MB/sec writing. I have tried removing the pix ssd from the system to check out for that being a problem. Same problem occurs using 7200 RPM spinners with pix. The video card I am using on this system is a Blackmagic Intensity Pro (non-genlocked). The Blackmagic driver is the supported version for Mac OS 10.8.5 (BM Desktop video v10.2.3). Running without video hardware with the pix on the desktop does not show the problems I describe using the video hardware.

People would be complaining bitterly if their AVID Media composer could not play a 27 min reel. Why do our (current) ProTools systems do this?

It's pretty simple. Fix the AVE please AVID. I don't yet need the collaboration features or anything else. Just the basics of in-sync and repeatable picture playback with audio without disruptions. That would be great!
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  #14  
Old 07-14-2015, 01:11 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: PT12.1.0 Video Engine Problems

Ray,

I know this won't help you much but I am not seeing these issues on my end. I get these errors very rarely. Probably once or twice a month.
Same under 10.8.5 and now under 10.10.x.
BM driver 10.4.1

It seems like having multiple video tracks can trigger it and frequent switching between them. Doing the latter sometimes makes my video screen go black and not come back without re-launching PT. But again very rarely.

But I know how frustrating this can be. My main frustration are these "black winks' because I mainly work in loop-playback with pre-roll enabled. This is 100% a Protools error as I can reproduce this on every machine. It's also in PT12 and 12.1.

http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/...12/136187-3779

Having said that, a colleague is on a trash bin Yosemite 11HD with RME interface and he's getting these AVE reconnects that then fail too. So it's really hard to find a pattern.

I don't think it's the BM hardware/driver causing it otherwise I'd bee seeing these issues all the time as well.

BTW: My only SSD is my system drive. Video and audio on internal spinning drives.

Frank.
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  #15  
Old 07-14-2015, 01:46 AM
mgoorevich's Avatar
mgoorevich mgoorevich is offline
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Default Re: PT12.1.0 Video Engine Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
It seems like having multiple video tracks can trigger it and frequent switching
It happens with only one Video Track which is fully kosher in all parameters (exported from the BaseLight system).
My only SSD is my system drive too. The rest are spinning at 7200 rpm SATA internal drives. But even when my system was on SATA I experienced the same issues.
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Michael Goorevich

Sound Designer
/ mixer
www.goorevich.com

PT HD⎪N v2023.12 Ultimate ● macOS Ventura 13.6.3
MacPro 7.1 (2019) 3.2GHz Intel Xeon W 16-Core ● 96 GB RAM
MTRX Studio + DADman 5.7.0.1 + MOM ● Sync HD ● AJA Kona LHi referenced by AJA GEN10 ● D-Command ES24

Last edited by mgoorevich; 07-14-2015 at 02:13 AM.
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  #16  
Old 07-14-2015, 04:50 AM
garnoil garnoil is offline
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Default Re: PT12.1.0 Video Engine Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray JB View Post
Both your stories are interesting. I can identify with Michael's accounts with my quick cutting stop/start work. But the AVE is very unusual in it's behaviour. Last evening after doing the system rebuild I described earlier I loaded up a new session consisting of 3 stereo guide tracks and a DNx36 picture. I sat and watched the show down (a 27 min reel). All good but then pictures stopped at approximately 10 mins with the usual picture freeze on the frame of AVE breakdown. Sound of course continues playing. No other apps were open. I had simply pressed play and left it going.

My machine has a system SSD (OWC) and the Samsung 500GB video drive and a WD 4TB drive for audio. 32 GB Ram. OS 10.8.5. All permissions repaired. All disks test perfectly via Disk Utility. Blackmagic speed test shows all drives are capable of their advertised data rates. The video drive SSD shows a rate of 270MB/sec reading and 265MB/sec writing. I have tried removing the pix ssd from the system to check out for that being a problem. Same problem occurs using 7200 RPM spinners with pix. The video card I am using on this system is a Blackmagic Intensity Pro (non-genlocked). The Blackmagic driver is the supported version for Mac OS 10.8.5 (BM Desktop video v10.2.3). Running without video hardware with the pix on the desktop does not show the problems I describe using the video hardware.

People would be complaining bitterly if their AVID Media composer could not play a 27 min reel. Why do our (current) ProTools systems do this?

It's pretty simple. Fix the AVE please AVID. I don't yet need the collaboration features or anything else. Just the basics of in-sync and repeatable picture playback with audio without disruptions. That would be great!

Ray, I think this must be something that is happening depending on each person's configuration (which is really bad). As I posted before, my system is not showing any of these symptoms that are being described in this thread. I posted my specs before, but last year I did 10 feature films, 2 large sound design projects, 6 hours of wild life TV, several shorts, and some trailers and NEVER have I seen the kind of problems that Michael is showing in his video. There are issues in Pro-Tools (crashes, auxes not passing sound, bad noise coming out of one speaker, etc) and issues with the AVE. For the regular Pro-Tools bugs that have been there for years we have a work around or at least we know when it is time for a re-boot. For the video engine, I sometimes get: "video engine could not get started' (or something like that) and I just hit stop and play again and it is fixed. This video can not get started glitch happens many be 5 times a week so 5 times in 50 hours of work but again I all do is hit play again and it is fixed. The video engine works for me no matter how fast I edit or move regions around but I wish Avid would fix: crashes at closing sessions, auxiliaries stop passing sound, I/O not remembering assignments or making outputs and buses inactive upon re-opening a perfectly good session, timecode spotting of regions often puts the region at the wrong timecode number, beach ball and crash for no reason at all, etc.
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  #17  
Old 07-14-2015, 05:32 AM
mgoorevich's Avatar
mgoorevich mgoorevich is offline
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Default Re: PT12.1.0 Video Engine Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by garnoil View Post
Ray, I think this must be something that is happening depending on each person's configuration (which is really bad). As I posted before, my system is not showing any of these symptoms that are being described in this thread. I posted my specs before, but last year I did 10 feature films, 2 large sound design projects, 6 hours of wild life TV, several shorts, and some trailers and NEVER have I seen the kind of problems that Michael is showing in his video. There are issues in Pro-Tools (crashes, auxes not passing sound, bad noise coming out of one speaker, etc) and issues with the AVE. For the regular Pro-Tools bugs that have been there for years we have a work around or at least we know when it is time for a re-boot. For the video engine, I sometimes get: "video engine could not get started' (or something like that) and I just hit stop and play again and it is fixed. This video can not get started glitch happens many be 5 times a week so 5 times in 50 hours of work but again I all do is hit play again and it is fixed. The video engine works for me no matter how fast I edit or move regions around but I wish Avid would fix: crashes at closing sessions, auxiliaries stop passing sound, I/O not remembering assignments or making outputs and buses inactive upon re-opening a perfectly good session, timecode spotting of regions often puts the region at the wrong timecode number, beach ball and crash for no reason at all, etc.
Garnoil, thats right it doesn't stop me from working, and I mixed several feature films and lots of documentaries on PT11. This problem has its most effect when editing / moving regions.
I never had this issue during mixing on my D-Command maybe because I don't move regions anymore?
BTW: I never had PT crash during closing the sessions but yes, I saw my busses stopping passing audio just out of the blue. The I/O not remembering assignments - got used to it ;-) Interesting how PT12 deals with it as it has a new IO config.
So may be those of us who have the AVE issues are a minority, so Avid don't count this bug as a serious problem.
But it irritates me so strongly that I would invest to rebuild or even change my system if it would help me with this problem. But here Frank says that even newer Trash Bins have this issue...

On the background I have constantly opened SoundMiner Pro 4.5 and maybe Safari but that make no difference IMHO.
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Michael Goorevich

Sound Designer
/ mixer
www.goorevich.com

PT HD⎪N v2023.12 Ultimate ● macOS Ventura 13.6.3
MacPro 7.1 (2019) 3.2GHz Intel Xeon W 16-Core ● 96 GB RAM
MTRX Studio + DADman 5.7.0.1 + MOM ● Sync HD ● AJA Kona LHi referenced by AJA GEN10 ● D-Command ES24
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  #18  
Old 07-14-2015, 06:23 AM
garnoil garnoil is offline
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Default Re: PT12.1.0 Video Engine Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoorevich View Post
Garnoil, thats right it doesn't stop me from working, and I mixed several feature films and lots of documentaries on PT11. This problem has its most effect when editing / moving regions.
I never had this issue during mixing on my D-Command maybe because I don't move regions anymore?
BTW: I never had PT crash during closing the sessions but yes, I saw my busses stopping passing audio just out of the blue. The I/O not remembering assignments - got used to it ;-) Interesting how PT12 deals with it as it has a new IO config.
So may be those of us who have the AVE issues are a minority, so Avid don't count this bug as a serious problem.
But it irritates me so strongly that I would invest to rebuild or even change my system if it would help me with this problem. But here Frank says that even newer Trash Bins have this issue...

On the background I have constantly opened SoundMiner Pro 4.5 and maybe Safari but that make no difference IMHO.
I agree with you that you should be upset about the issues that you are having with AVE. I think tech support at AVID should be jumping all over this to help you and others that are having these problems. Clearly something is happening that is not right, so where is tech support? have you contacted them? what do they say? I can not imagine Tech support would day too bad live with it? so...what do they say? It is clear that many people are having these issues AVID?
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  #19  
Old 07-14-2015, 06:48 AM
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mgoorevich mgoorevich is offline
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Default Re: PT12.1.0 Video Engine Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by garnoil View Post
I agree with you that you should be upset about the issues that you are having with AVE. I think tech support at AVID should be jumping all over this to help you and others that are having these problems. Clearly something is happening that is not right, so where is tech support? have you contacted them? what do they say? I can not imagine Tech support would day too bad live with it? so...what do they say? It is clear that many people are having these issues AVID?
Well, until someone at Avid opens you a ticket, I find it very difficult to contact them.
I used to communicate with Simon Gussek and he is very professional but eventually only the PT version update (11.3.1) solved few of my issues.
Thats why I decided just to post the video describing the bug as I gave up on that Avid will address it its attention.
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Michael Goorevich

Sound Designer
/ mixer
www.goorevich.com

PT HD⎪N v2023.12 Ultimate ● macOS Ventura 13.6.3
MacPro 7.1 (2019) 3.2GHz Intel Xeon W 16-Core ● 96 GB RAM
MTRX Studio + DADman 5.7.0.1 + MOM ● Sync HD ● AJA Kona LHi referenced by AJA GEN10 ● D-Command ES24
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  #20  
Old 07-14-2015, 09:58 AM
cananball cananball is offline
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Default Re: PT12.1.0 Video Engine Problems

Still working on 10.3.9 here, so this is a serious question.

If you've upgraded to 12 does that mean you have a support plan in place? Can you call avid and work this out? Maybe next year when everybody is on a support plan and they get all of these support calls for the same problems over and over they will be inclined to actually fix stuff.
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