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  #1  
Old 11-13-2013, 05:53 AM
Makendzis Makendzis is offline
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Default PT10HD iLok license transfer locked. Is this even legal?

Hi.

Please explain to me this: how can someone forbid me to sell things that I bought legaly? Seems that this is the case with PT10HD software licenses. How come I can buy it and the seller can transfer the license to my account, but I can't sell it anymore because the manufacturer changed his politics?

I'd understand if this was impossible from the begining as in "you can't sell an HD license without hardware". But wait, I believe millions of users did that, because one could do whatever he wanted with his iLok licenses. But bam and now avid forbids it? Who do you think you are? This is indeed a user rights breach. And no one says anything?

I tried to switch to PT three times LEGALY and everytime I banged into ignorance of this company. Yes, I spent few thousands of money on their software and this is how they treat me?

Ahh. Whatever... Thanks for reading and sending me some good energy. Good luck to everyone and I hope that someday this company will reach it's end. If I could take the license from my iLok I'd do a youtube video on how I burn it. But this is impossible. So this license goes with me into the grave!

ok, feeling better. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:43 PM
Makendzis Makendzis is offline
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Default Re: PT10HD iLok license transfer locked. Is this even legal?

So please explain to me, avid - is this legal and fair? Or should I pay for your yearly support to get an answer to that? U u... And after I order the support thingy you could just lock it to my credit card so I'm not able to unsubscribe from it. Kinda like avid lifetime support. Because if I did asked for it, why on earth would I want to get rid of it right?
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2013, 01:07 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: PT10HD iLok license transfer locked. Is this even legal?

Are you trying to transfer an iLok software license with a transfer of ownership of the originally bundled HD hardware or just by itself?

If somebody previously sold you an unbundled Pro Tools HD software license they likely violated their EULA--and most sellers know this was not officially allowed/was a grey area. And you as a purchaser seem to be the unfortunate chump that purchased this illegitimate/"grey" license without understanding exactly what you were getting into. So maybe you ought to be upset at that previous seller, maybe not, hard to say what they really understood. Maybe you should be upset at yourself. You need to really understand what you are doing with *any* "used" software/license sale. There are many restrictions/issues out there. In the past, many purchasers, at least folks on DUC, buying these unbundled HD licenses, seemed aware they were "grey market" and may have no upgrade/on-sale value, even if Avid was not then hard-enforcing iLok license transfers.

Look call up Avid and talk to them if you want to, they are unlikely to respond to you here. And while I don't necessarily agree with Avid's approach here, you'll need to beyond kiddie steps in your understanding here.

You have not purchased software, you don't own the software or outright own a right to use it. You have licensed the right to use it. That right is controlled by the EULA that you agreed to as a part of your purchase.

If you want to have a discussion of your rights that starts with the EULA. And others (including me) have commented on that here before. It is a bit of a sloppy mess since it pulls in external transfer of ownership program documentation. If you are unhappy about this you can argue that behavior of Avid conflicts with the EULA, or the EULA violates your other legal rights (and if so what specific consumer or general contract law does it violate in your jurisdiction?)? Or the EULA and behavior is legal but not what you woudl like and could Avid consider changing it? So which one is it?

Personally I wish Avid would clarify and allow inter-account iLok HD license transfers with HD hardware transfer of ownership, it currently unclear if they do that or not). Not transferring a HD license without a hardware transfer of ownership seems pretty well provided for in the current and past EULAs.
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2013, 01:18 PM
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Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson is offline
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Default Re: PT10HD iLok license transfer locked. Is this even legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makendzis View Post
...
I'd understand if this was impossible from the begining as in "you can't sell an HD license without hardware"...
That has been their stated policy from the very beginning. People only got away with selling software transfers but they were never legitimate sales.
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:32 AM
SmokinBaldMonkey SmokinBaldMonkey is offline
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Default Re: PT10HD iLok license transfer locked. Is this even legal?

I've decided to sue Avid in small claims court in the SFV.

I don't believe I can get a judge to force them to open up the assets for moving amongst accounts, but I am going to sue to force them to accept a return of this product and refund my money based on the argument that they changed their ilok policy arbitrarily, and without making it implicitly clear to buyers that they would be stuck with the thing perpetually. Since Avid has the ability to strip an asset from an ilok, I think it will be easy to convince a judge to see it from the buyer's perspective.

I suspect that at the end of the day, the cost to defend this small claim will outweigh the cost of settling it.

I'll keep you all posted.
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  #6  
Old 01-01-2014, 09:36 AM
Brandonx1 Brandonx1 is offline
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Default Re: PT10HD iLok license transfer locked. Is this even legal?

Are you selling your hardware as well? Isn't the software locked to the hardware? If you transfer ownership of the hardware, can't you transfer the software?
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  #7  
Old 01-01-2014, 10:16 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: PT10HD iLok license transfer locked. Is this even legal?

If you are trying to unbundle the software and sell it separately them what legal argument do you expect to use to invalidate the EULA? Many license agreements legally restrict sale/unbundling/other use of bundled hardware and software. The most obvious being Microsoft Windows bundled OEM licenses (but not retail licenses). And if this is a contract dispute under Massachusetts law good luck convincing a small claims court temporary judge they should hear that. California consumer protection maybe, but it is not obvious what claim you think you have there.

If you are trying to sell the hardware and software together and Avid refuses to allow an iLok transfer then it is more complex.
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Old 01-01-2014, 11:23 AM
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YYR123 YYR123 is offline
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Default Re: PT10HD iLok license transfer locked. Is this even legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinBaldMonkey View Post
I've decided to sue Avid in small claims court in the SFV.

I don't believe I can get a judge to force them to open up the assets for moving amongst accounts, but I am going to sue to force them to accept a return of this product and refund my money based on the argument that they changed their ilok policy arbitrarily, and without making it implicitly clear to buyers that they would be stuck with the thing perpetually. Since Avid has the ability to strip an asset from an ilok, I think it will be easy to convince a judge to see it from the buyer's perspective.

I suspect that at the end of the day, the cost to defend this small claim will outweigh the cost of settling it.

I'll keep you all posted.
Best of luck - I hope u have a pre law student that wants to work pro bono

You don't even really own the software you are just licensed to run it - it seems that some pretty good lawyers tend to write the Eula and u did agree to it upon install and purchase and install of the ilok as well
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