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  #1  
Old 03-25-2018, 12:20 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Hideous realtime quantise midi clip resize bug PT 2018.3

Hi there.. i played 4 chords.. put the realtime quantize at 1 bar..

All notes visually shifted on time

All correct in event list..

the clip started a bar before the notes.. clip was at bar 1, and notes at bar 2. I checked event list and sure enough not one note started before bar 2.1.1.0

However, if i moved the left of the clip to resize it to bar 2 where the notes started, they disappear (the notes)..

The only work around was to disable realtime quantise, and then do a proper destructive quantise, then i could resize the clip correctly.

This has to be a bug.. otherwise what is the *point* of realtime quantise if you can't resize clips correctly?
I love using the realtime parameters as I have them permanently displayed in the arrange page on the left side.. the one thing i loved about PT midi that I equate to logic's inspector, except PT goes further as allows duration/legato etc to be done from realtime as well, where as logic only really allows quantise and transpose (and track delay).

I am hoping this will be corrected, i am certain i would have noticed it on older versions.. the notes UN quantised started before bar 2.. this is the problem obviously, that real time quantise being selected, although visually moving the notes, is not really doing it underneath...

But again what's the point if resizing clips is making notes disappear LOL? If that is the case, avid should NOT adjust the visual placement of the notes when enabling the realtime quantise, so at least clip resizing correlates to where notes physically are..

anyone else?

PS, i tried to cheat by splicing at bar 2 then deleting the bit of the clip before bar 2, but as soon as deleting, all notes also disappear.

perhaps there is a preference somewhere that I accidentally changed? This is what i am hoping..
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Old 03-25-2018, 02:08 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Hideous realtime quantise midi clip resize bug PT 2018.3

Counter-argument: why does a MIDI clip boundary matter?

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/hom...s-for-quantise
Real-time properties are not “baked” in. So when you delete where the note actually was written, you are deleting the note. Consider this your ability to undo or re-quantize to a different grid what you inputted. If you want it where you see it, use the actual quantize function.

They both exist for a reason

(There is also under Pro Tools Preferences > MIDI > Display Events as Modified by Real Time Properties)
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Last edited by BScout; 03-25-2018 at 03:05 AM.
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  #3  
Old 03-25-2018, 03:19 AM
midnightrambler midnightrambler is offline
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Default Re: Hideous realtime quantise midi clip resize bug PT 2018.3

I agree with BScout, otherwise you would have e.g. data from 1|3|721 to be included in a clip that's trimmed to bar 2 if the quantise value is set to whole notes, which would just seem weird from a user point of view. You have to draw the line somewhere.
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Old 03-25-2018, 03:46 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default realtime quantise midi clip resize bug PT 2018.3, maybe not hideous after all

Ok well there you go.. i'm in the minority, and i graciously accept your explanations and opinions.

Thanks very much B Scout, I am going to turn the visual representation thing off, at least without that, i won't be thrown.

of course clip boundaries matter for grid placement and easy duplication in 4/4 music, that's all.

I guess i wish there was an option to display the *destructive* quantise/duration/ etc etc instead of the realtime. Exactly as is but simply destructive..Like logic.. then again logic's realtime quantize inspector can be undone ANY time , even the next week or year.. and will revert the clip.. so it must keep an auto backup somewhere..

Those real time properties are often all i ever need to edit midi..

so for Avid to simply add an option to turn them destructive.. is that a reasonable request?

That way i would not as often need to open the event processor.. I could literally do it all from the main page next to the track name!

It's a workflow thing.. personally that would speed things up for me. Hey, Cubase is really lacking in this department anyway.. and i have to get used to that eventually since i am still migrating. (I'm just going to keep both anyway so i can be compatible with PT studios).

Anyone else? Perhaps this could be an arbitrary addition for Avid.. Just right click where the real time panel is and choose "destructive mode".

I mean they could still be undone after all, just not as simply as realtime, down the track with multiple ops.

You have to admit, it IS weird when the notes visually on the arrange page are aligned perfectly to the bar or beat, then resizing the clip to a bar or beat deletes the notes.. If BScout hadn't told me about that preference i would have gone nuts, at least this way i'll easily always know when something is realtime and what my clip boundaries are (thanks again BScout)
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  #5  
Old 03-25-2018, 02:15 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: realtime quantise midi clip resize bug PT 2018.3, maybe not hideous after all

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
I guess i wish there was an option to display the *destructive* quantise/duration/ etc etc instead of the realtime.
<snip>
What you want is Input Quantize. It exists already. Look it up on page 1029 of the manual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
Hey, Cubase is really lacking in this department anyway..

I take it you are just starting out with Cubase but you really don't know what you are talking about here. Cubase probably has the best ability/options to quantise. There are a lot of ways and abilities (more than pretty much any other DAW.) I'd tell you to reserve judgement until you know/use Cubase more -- it is way deeper than you think on quantising.
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  #6  
Old 03-25-2018, 03:17 PM
mtung mtung is offline
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Default Re: Hideous realtime quantise midi clip resize bug PT 2018.3

There is indeed a Hideous MIDI Bug. I have witnessed disappearing notes first hand, but they disappeared when simply editing a note. I don’t think it mattered what settings were turned on but I’m not 100% certain. When it happened, all other notes on the track seemed to disappear. So frustrating, especially in light of the price we pay. Seems more like we’re paying Avid to beta test for them.
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:08 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: realtime quantise midi clip resize bug PT 2018.3, maybe not hideous after all

Quote:
Originally Posted by BScout View Post
What you want is Input Quantize. It exists already. Look it up on page 1029 of the manual.


I take it you are just starting out with Cubase but you really don't know what you are talking about here. Cubase probably has the best ability/options to quantise. There are a lot of ways and abilities (more than pretty much any other DAW.) I'd tell you to reserve judgement until you know/use Cubase more -- it is way deeper than you think on quantising.
and here we go.. the personal **** starts, just after i have thanked you and been so polite.

You don't have a clue what you are talking about, nada. I know Cubase very well thank you.. only thing I have had to learn is new features since V8&9.

There is something so mentally wrong with some people at this forum it is mind blowing. Always got to dish out a condescending insult to make themselves feel better, then get surprised when person responds, then topic gets ruined, then mods step in and lock.

All i was asking for in that post, but you were unable to comprehend it, was to be able to have real time properties as a destructive option. There is a lot more there than just quantise.. I made it pretty clear I use all of them, not just quantise.. I'll try explain it slowly so you understand.

What i am requesting is, that there is an option so real time properties can replace the event operations viewer to a degree, and that everything i chose in real time properties, affects the clip as if i have destructively processed it with the event operations editor. Legato, length, velocity, etc. Because it's right there on the arrange page (if one enables the option for it to be viewed), one could literally do much of their midi editing without ever opening a seperate processing menu, as well as helping tremendously with one screen laptop workflows.

As it stands now, if i use the real time processing and have the clip option preference to visually adjust with that, it makes it uncomfortable use cause any edits i do to the clip itself do not make sense to what the notes visually represent, one perfect example being disappearing notes.

So i'll try say it again.. It would be really cool if real time processing could be used to destructively edit clips so that way, any clip resizing edits, for example, would not affect notes.

In other words, to make the integrated midi real time editing display have an option to work like the event processor so that would not need to be opened except in situations where it's more advanced possibilities were needed. That way pro tools would be even neater to work with than is now.

As far as input quantise, yes, i have known about that since 1996.. I rarely use it, and only do when i know something has to be an exact 1/16th rhythmic part.

I don't know about you, but i muck around a lot with quantise after the fact, and sometimes go through 20 or more different settings, to find the best fit for the groove and flow of the song. And i often change that further on as the composition progresses. To add swing, or groove quantise from an audio clip to midi,or add some humanisation..

How you equated this topic to just input quantise is beyond me, but then again, some people just read what they want to read, so they can get their stab in and try make it as if the person is dumb. I am smart, sorry to burst your bubble, and am a skilled daw user and composer for many, many years.

Cubase does not allow one to much around with all the different quantise settings from the event inspector on the left.. all i was saying it would be good if they added that.. And yes in the 1% cases where i know what quantise i want, i will turn on input quantise for a particular recording. Try wrap that around your brain.

Another fool muted, and this is exactly what i won't miss when i am using cubase more. Duc condescension.
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  #8  
Old 03-26-2018, 06:09 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Hideous realtime quantise midi clip resize bug PT 2018.3

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtung View Post
There is indeed a Hideous MIDI Bug. I have witnessed disappearing notes first hand, but they disappeared when simply editing a note. I don’t think it mattered what settings were turned on but I’m not 100% certain. When it happened, all other notes on the track seemed to disappear. So frustrating, especially in light of the price we pay. Seems more like we’re paying Avid to beta test for them.
shhh, didn't you know? You can solve all your problems with input quantise


LOLOLOLOLROFLMFAO
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:00 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Hideous realtime quantise midi clip resize bug PT 2018.3

You are welcome.
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Old 03-27-2018, 09:26 PM
Dizzi45Z Dizzi45Z is offline
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Default Re: Hideous realtime quantise midi clip resize bug PT 2018.3

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtung View Post
There is indeed a Hideous MIDI Bug. I have witnessed disappearing notes first hand, but they disappeared when simply editing a note. I don’t think it mattered what settings were turned on but I’m not 100% certain. When it happened, all other notes on the track seemed to disappear.
Probably unrelated to the exact issue from the OP, but I am also seeing disappearing MIDI notes quite often in just general midi editing situations.
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