Delay Compensation Limit woes

[LDS]

But really... if you're hitting the limits of delay compensation in Pro Tools, your session and plugin selection are plainly bloated.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Eric Lambert

Coincidentally, UA just released a native version of (some of) their plugins today. That will help for instances where these round-trips are involved.

Ha so that was the UAD Spark announcement I did not look at. Damn I had said if UAD ever went Native I'd buy their interfaces, too bad I just spent too much money on more RME stuff. Nice move from them to do this, thank you UAD.

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by LDS

But really... if you're hitting the limits of delay compensation in Pro Tools, your session and plugin selection are plainly bloated.

You’ve never run any Izotope RX plugins in real-time then I take it?

Whether you think they should be run in real-time is not the question btw. That’s a choice. But if you do, you can trip up the delay compensation.


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[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by LDS

But really... if you're hitting the limits of delay compensation in Pro Tools, your session and plugin selection are plainly bloated.

...except when they aren't.

[LDS]

Originally Posted by Sardi

You’ve never run any Izotope RX plugins in real-time then I take it?

Whether you think they should be run in real-time is not the question btw. That’s a choice. But if you do, you can trip up the delay compensation.


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But engineering is always about choices. The real question is why you need to blitz the ADC limit in Pro Tools, while the engineer sitting two doors down gets great results without even getting close.

Endless resources seldomly result in better quality. It is just one of the reasons for the age old adage about never blaming your tools. ADC issues will disappear as soon as a user dismisses the marketing pitch behind the plugin sale... and starts using their ears instead.

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by LDS

But engineering is always about choices. The real question is why you need to blitz the ADC limit in Pro Tools, while the engineer sitting two doors down gets great results without even getting close.

Endless resources seldomly result in better quality. It is just one of the reasons for the age old adage about never blaming your tools. ADC issues will disappear as soon as a user dismisses the marketing pitch behind the plugin sale... and starts using their ears instead.

No offence, but did you even read what I wrote?

Some of those RX modules incur an insane amount of latency.


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[massivekerry]

Originally Posted by LDS

But engineering is always about choices. The real question is why you need to blitz the ADC limit in Pro Tools, while the engineer sitting two doors down gets great results without even getting close.

Endless resources seldomly result in better quality. It is just one of the reasons for the age old adage about never blaming your tools. ADC issues will disappear as soon as a user dismisses the marketing pitch behind the plugin sale... and starts using their ears instead.

Hmmm. It’s true. When I open my 15-year old sessions, there’s a lot less latency and ADC on them, due to the tools available at the time. They still sound good, but they definitely use a more limited palette

But since I’m playing and recording everything myself anyway, going outside my comfort zone and taking creative chances sometimes results in trying different tools that do something great, but that I later notice end up being… porcine in a way that allows them to maintain phase coherence with what they’re doing.

It’s a constant refinement, right? Heck, I remember when I had to own multiple reverb boxes to be able to have more than one reverb on a mix.

[Eric Lambert]

I recently listened to some mixes I'd done 20 years ago and was surprised by how little I've improved in two decades. I think I worked harder to get more with less back then. I spent more time with compressors and eqs because it was required to get them to sound good. Now, everything sounds good, and you can have virtually unlimited amounts of each. And yes, less CPU in those days (it was DSP, but the point remains).

[LDS]

Originally Posted by Sardi

No offence, but did you even read what I wrote?

Some of those RX modules incur an insane amount of latency.


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Maybe my response was too subtle. It isn't a question of do you use rx plugins... it is a question of why do you use rx plugins. They revert to low quality settings when used in realtime... and get widely (ab)used because people never learnt proper editing techniques.

[LDS]

Originally Posted by massivekerry

Hmmm. It’s true. When I open my 15-year old sessions, there’s a lot less latency and ADC on them, due to the tools available at the time. They still sound good, but they definitely use a more limited palette

But since I’m playing and recording everything myself anyway, going outside my comfort zone and taking creative chances sometimes results in trying different tools that do something great, but that I later notice end up being… porcine in a way that allows them to maintain phase coherence with what they’re doing.

It’s a constant refinement, right? Heck, I remember when I had to own multiple reverb boxes to be able to have more than one reverb on a mix.

But refinement and creativity don't really coincide with more plugins. It seems that is the biggest difference today, from 10 or 20 years ago. People seem to think they should be collecting plugins like they do baseball cards. It is really just abject consumerism. Literally anyone can do it.

Creativity and comfort zones are entirely about the creative process itself. Particularly with the power of any stock standard DAW, relying on a new plugin is a pretty unimaginative approach to achieving something that sounds different. It has certainly been one of my big realisations, and perhaps is applicable in some kind of systemic way. 20 years ago there were less tools available, so people inherently were less bogged down in them.

Today, people seem to rely on plugins as a replacement to even the most basic audio engineering skills.