Bass mixing, "Be There" as example

[apetrocelli]

When you mix bass, do you make it sound edgey and with fret noise as the "Be There" Demo? The bass sounds odd when soloed, but great in the mix.
I tried to make my bass sound like that at rehearsals, but the fret noise is very distracting. Maybe it has to do with the fact that practice amps are all over the place and not in one spot as a mixing monitor.
Also, how do you get the "meat" on the bass? Like that Ampeg sound the guy from U2 gets, that kind of electric "mmhhhh" that's also present on the "Be There" demo.
Thanks for the advice. Andrés

[cruisemates]

I have to admit that mixing bass may be the hardest thing for me, and I am a bass player. I know how I want it to sound, but getting it there is another story.

What I shoot for is a solid presence in the low frequencies first. It is a "bass" and is there to lend bottom to the mix. Getting all the notes in the lowest octave of your bass range to come out at the same volume level is the first challenge for me. The problem with bass is it isn't unusual to have a specific note (frequency) that tends to "boom" or resonate.

I start out by soloing the bass and then working with compression and EQ to try to get all the frequencies to come out at the same volume level - especially the lowest octave. I work with the attack and release times to find the right amount of pop (attack) on the note, and a sustained and even release on the note so the bass sounds solid on the low end.

Then I look at the mids to find that sweet spot that gives me the exact amount of "growl" or presence that I want. Bass is a lot like kick in that there are actually two different sounds - the bottom and the presence.

But the amount of "growl" (as in "Chris Squire - Yes") I use depends on the song. Does the growl add to the piece, or does it just make it busy? My first concern is to have bottom. Paul McCartney is an amazing bass player - but there isn't any growl in his sound.

If you do want the growl sound, you need a VERY good bass player because it essentially becomes another lead instrument, and one that is playing constantly. This can make your mix very busy.

I once had a disagreement with a bass player from an excellent band because his attack was always off. I tried to get him to listen to the kick and tighten up, but he wasn't comfortable changing his parts. The band members came to me and said "we know he isn't the greatest, but he works for us. Just make sure he has bottom and don't add any mids." It worked out great and by the end of the session I had forgotten all about my perceived "problem" with his playing.

[K.B.]

Can you post any examples? It'd be interesting to hear what you mean. Or quote any particular songs that are easy to find?

[apetrocelli]

BTW, I was looking at the Be There bass track on a spectrum analyzer. It's pretty hot at the 60 Hz area, and then it drops until it does a very tight peak at 2KHz.

[cruisemates]

BTW, I was looking at the Be There bass track on a spectrum analyzer. It's pretty hot at the 60 Hz area, and then it drops until it does a very tight peak at 2KHz.

Well sure, thats pretty much what I was referring to as "two" sounds; bass and presence. Most engineers I believe refer to "presence" as that freq range between 1k to 2 k that the human ear is particularly sensitive to. It is usually where the fret noise is. If I have too much fret noise I might cut in that range, and then boost in the 4k range to put some clarity back into the bass.

By the way -- I want to give a mention to the extreme importance of setting up your instrument. If you have a guitar or bass and you haven't adjusted the string height for the cleanest sound and then (MOST IMPORTANT) re-set the intonation after you change the height, then you are fighting an uphill battle anyway.

String brand selection is a huge part of the growl sound, too. I am sure I never heard of Roto-sounds until Chris Squire came on the scene.

[mpark9000]

Actually, John Entwhistle helped develop RotoSound strings in the 1960s. Chris Squire has said that Entwhistle was an inspiration for him. Listen to any Who album and you'll hear Rotosound strings.

[apetrocelli]

That's a great example of a "fretty" sound: those breaks on "My Generation" are full of string sound.
Cruisemates: you talked about "clean" sound. What do you mean by that? The "Be There" sound, for example, sounds unclean to me when soloed, full of finger and fret noise. If you listen to it with a band pass filter you'll listen to some odd overtones, etc.
Yet when it's mixed with the band is really cool. Actually, I was thinking about lowering the action and get a little more fret sound.

[3JDamon]

Edgey bass is a matter of upper-midrage sustain. Take Waves C1 sidechain compressor and set it to split compression with a notch filter somewhere between 1.5kHz and 3.5kHz, give it a short attack and release (say, 5ms each), a ratio of probably 3:1-5:1, set the threshold so the response "sits on the shelf" in the envelope diagram, and play with the make-up level. And use fresh strings, of course.

And to get that Ampeg warmth, get an Ampeg. IMO a studio does not have a proper bass signal chain without one, and certain models make great guitar amps with a more guitar-orientated preamp in front of them. I stopped using Marshalls and Mesas the day I got my V4. Only certain clean tones get me considering another guitar amp. Think I paid $300 for the V4. Hello bargain.

[apetrocelli]

anybody knows what the "growl" or "ampeg sound" is, frequency/compression wise?

[Straatocastoer]

I know this isn't a plugin conversation per se, but I get EXCELLENT results with iZotope's Trash on any bass I have put this plug on.