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  #161  
Old 11-25-2024, 01:35 PM
zakco zakco is offline
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Default Re: PT 2024.3 NEW issue MIDI LATENCY

Quote:
Originally Posted by skylar_battles View Post
So really, it’s that Pro Tools’ MIDI Recording implementation has never "worked" for Virtual Instruments at all! Playback ALWAYS sounds earlier than recording.

I've been using protools since the 90s and I've NEVER been able to reliably use midi since day 1. I've gone through many elaborate workarounds over the years and it's been crazy making for sure. These days, I just don't bother. I'd rather use ANY other software than Pro tools for midi. Such a ridiculous situation in 2024. I'm not calling out any of the AVID people here that are trying to get this fixed, but AVID as a company should be incredibly embarrassed at this point!
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  #162  
Old 11-25-2024, 03:52 PM
skylar_battles skylar_battles is offline
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Default Re: PT 2024.3 NEW issue MIDI LATENCY

Hey zakco! Thanks for your comment!

I'm certainly not calling anyone out either! I'm just trying to continually be exceedingly clear about the issue as this problem and what is causing it is often misdiagnosed. I'm very grateful for all of the MIDI Improvements on the current version, but this implementation issue as it relates to Virtual Instruments cannot be overlooked! Do have faith that this longstanding issue will be addressed! Avid just needs to know that it is the #1 priority MIDI issue in Pro Tools.
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  #163  
Old 11-26-2024, 08:56 AM
tope d's Avatar
tope d tope d is offline
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Default Re: PT 2024.3 NEW issue MIDI LATENCY

Quote:
Originally Posted by gills View Post
Just want to further clarify what's happening.

Hitting a note when recording MIDI will trigger two events:
  1. The note is printed to the timeline at the exact moment you hit it.
  2. The note is actually triggered out loud after the latency time introduced by the H/W buffer size and the session's plugins. This only during record, not playback.
The notes print and play back ahead of the beat because we intuitively play ahead of the beat, so that our notes trigger on the beat when recording.

But when playing back, those notes no longer trigger where they did when you were recording. Instead, they trigger where they were printed (ahead of the beat).

To test this, you can mute the instrument track you're recording to, turn on the metronome, and record a note on each click for a bit (without hearing the instrument, only the metronome). You'll find the notes will print on beat.

I experience this problem and agree that it's crazy to me that it is still ongoing.
Took over your case (04896169) and i've tagged the bug on it. We'll update you soon as we get news. Thank you
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  #164  
Old 11-28-2024, 12:19 PM
Markrosoft Markrosoft is offline
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Default Re: PT 2024.3 NEW issue MIDI LATENCY

Thanks Tope for your response! This is a huge issue and is really the first step to Pro Tools becoming a viable DAW for serious midi work. Even though you’ve added some really great features, without fixing this it’s kinda pointless.

I just saw this and it seems SUPER relevant:
https://cdm.link/ableton-live-latency/

Even though Ableton has always done things the “right” way (or at least how I’d want it to default) it looks like they just added the option to have it the way Pro Tools has always done (which would be the preferred way for people using midi hardware synths). This toggle Ableton just introduced is *exactly* what Skylar has been asking for and it really is the solution. It could be in the settings midi panel and does not be a toggle on the track.

But that’s exactly what we need in PT.

Thanks again for your help!
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  #165  
Old 11-29-2024, 07:26 AM
manichouse manichouse is offline
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Default Re: PT 2024.3 NEW issue MIDI LATENCY

Glad to hear that this is being looked at.

Cubendo has had option for dealing with this for quite a while now. It can be set globally or per track. It's called "ASIO Latency Compensation". Essentially, it shifts recorded MIDI timestamps by the buffer size / latency values reported by your hardware. MIDI notes end up being recorded exactly where you heard them during recording, not where you played them (which would have likely been a little early to compensate for the latency you heard / felt).

Hoping AVID can do something similar.
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  #166  
Old 11-29-2024, 08:21 AM
strawb strawb is offline
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Default Re: PT 2024.3 NEW issue MIDI LATENCY

checking back for any answers on this issue - marianna/tope?


Quote:
Originally Posted by marianna View Post
Furthest from the truth strawb.... of course we want to fix/release but there has to be a reason why we didn't with this particular issue.

Yes you reported it 8 months ago but it wasnt until cases got created that traction on it was made. Posting on the duc doesnt ensure support see's it and acts, creating a case or cases folks does. Tope and I had just begun to pop in here so we escalated it along with a few other folks reporting it like sklar_battles, innerbooty, and more.....

The product design and development peep isnt in today and will be back mid week and it will be the first thing I ask and report on once I know.

stand by..... we ( tope and I ) will get you answers.

Marianna
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  #167  
Old 11-29-2024, 08:44 PM
skylar_battles skylar_battles is offline
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Default Re: PT 2024.3 NEW issue MIDI LATENCY

Thanks for continuing the discussion everyone!

Yes, I think Ableton nailed it with their implementation of the “keep latency” track-based toggle. In versions prior to Ableton 12, you could still turn monitoring off while recording for the MIDI notes to be placed when they were received, but it is possible you would need to do this while using the Auto or In track (monitoring) settings and therefore printing the latency if I’m not mistaken in a case when you would not like to.

I do still think it should be a track based toggle so that MIDI recording workflows aren’t inherently limited by the use case when multiple tracks are being used. Being able to it all at once on different tracks is preferable!

Thanks for the energy on this! And a big thank you to Marianna always!!!
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  #168  
Old 12-04-2024, 12:42 PM
strawb strawb is offline
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Default Re: PT 2024.3 NEW issue MIDI LATENCY

Quote:
Originally Posted by strawb View Post
checking back for any answers on this issue - marianna/tope?
quick update

on a fresh APFS partition on my mac studio
i just did a clean install of sequoia 15.1.1 - PT 2024.10.1 HDX

SAME ISSUE!!!
latency for midi/instrument tracks once any plugins are added to the session.
here's a video showing the issue
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/72hgv...wxd4erqol&dl=0

just feeling defeated here. i've tried everything but a different interface than my antelope galaxy 64 (which is an expensive proposition)

PT 2024 is just broken for me

Last edited by strawb; 12-04-2024 at 01:17 PM.
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  #169  
Old 12-04-2024, 03:47 PM
Dizzi45Z Dizzi45Z is offline
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Default Re: PT 2024.3 NEW issue MIDI LATENCY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markrosoft View Post

ISSUE ONE (Skyler's Issue): Midi playback ALWAYS sounds different than the recording. Let's say someone is watching you record a midi performance and they hear you play perfectly on the beat. You stop recording and then playback your performance: the performance will sound different than what they just heard -- now the performance will be ahead of the beat! The amount is dictated by buffer size but even at a low buffer size it's still present. This affects ALL users and has always existed.
...

As Skylar has pointed out these issue might seem related but they really aren't. Issue One has always existed. It happens for all users and all versions of Pro Tools.
...

A key point is that Issue One is subtle. I think it's something that many many users have felt but unless they do the printing audio test like me, Skyler and a few others on YouTube they probably just think their performance was off. Nope, in fact, Pro Tools is altering every single performance! That really does make Pro Tools a horrible platform to record midi. Think about it: You record and your performance is a little bit BEHIND the beat. Cool! Then you listen back and hit play and BOOM, your performance is a bit AHEAD of the beat! That's insane!
I still don't think this is a bug. Here is a Video explaining what I think is happening:

https://youtu.be/aVhZedAm6Pw?feature=shared
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  #170  
Old 12-04-2024, 09:00 PM
Dizzi45Z Dizzi45Z is offline
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Default Re: PT 2024.3 NEW issue MIDI LATENCY

In a nutshell, if Avid decides to try to address this, it really needs to be a preference that can be toggled on and off.

I think what people are asking for is that they want the MIDI recordings to be compensated for the latency of the instrument so that the MIDI notes are placed later than actually played. If the MIDI is compensated for the buffer/latency of the instrument, then the performance and playback would be exactly the same. BUT... the MIDI would not be accurately placed where it was actually played.

This would be a problem with some clients that aren't affected by the latency of the instruments (like a really good keyboardist I work with that plays in time no matter how much latency there is, or if someone records without monitoring their instrument).

So if there is to be compensation, it should be an option in Preferences or Options or toggled on and off on the track.
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