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  #31  
Old 07-09-2022, 11:22 AM
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nednednerb nednednerb is offline
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Default Re: Post Production - where to start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kol12 View Post
The reason I increased the loudness was because it's my understanding that podcasts should meet a loudness standard of -18/-16 LUFS. The original audio measured around -30 LUFS...

If the audio has to be boosted to meet a loudness standard won't the increase in breath noises be inevitable? If breaths cannot be edited out manually should they be attenuated in RX?
I admit I didn't look or listen -very- closely. I do see the numerous edits in your screenshot. When you explain, it occurs to me some RX would be useful at the point the file is. Voice or spectral de-noise could be good.

When I mentioned the breath removal, I think it depends on the destination and the rest of the editing. Sometimes I edit virtually all the breaths out of a voice recording. Sometimes I leave many of them in. I guess that one I noticed stood out.

I read the AES streaming standards which did say integrated loudness should be targeted between -20 and -16 LUFS. I will take a closer listen to your file soon and make some more recommendations if I can think of anything.

EDIT: On a second listen, I think that is not bad for an edit! For the pace of speech and it being recorded non-scripted, you cleaned up well most of the extra little words and umms, and it flowed fairly nicely. As you gain practice each edit will sound smoother probably. Do you have any specific questions about what you are doing?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
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>> me: nednednerB //
||main gig: editing audio voiceovers & testing software | 2nd gig: music software tutoring | hobby: electronic music //
||software: Sonoma 14.2 | PT Studio 2023.12 | Ableton Live 11 | iZotope RX, Ozone, Neutron | Arturia Pigments | Auto-Tune | Dubler2 //
||system: iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020) 10-Core-i9 | 128GB-DDR4 | 5700-XT-16GB | OWC Thunderbolt Hub and Thunderbolt 3 Dock //
||devices: RME Babyface Pro FS | Focusrite Clarett 2Pre | some AT mics | SM58 | Ableton Push 2 | Sennheiser HD 600 HP // Onkyo TX-8220 SR
||automation: SoundFlow | Stream Deck+ | Keyboard Maestro | SteerMouse | MacOS Shortcuts //

Last edited by nednednerb; 07-09-2022 at 02:39 PM.
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  #32  
Old 07-10-2022, 02:02 AM
kol12 kol12 is offline
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Default Re: Post Production - where to start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nednednerb View Post
I admit I didn't look or listen -very- closely. I do see the numerous edits in your screenshot. When you explain, it occurs to me some RX would be useful at the point the file is. Voice or spectral de-noise could be good.

When I mentioned the breath removal, I think it depends on the destination and the rest of the editing. Sometimes I edit virtually all the breaths out of a voice recording. Sometimes I leave many of them in. I guess that one I noticed stood out.

I read the AES streaming standards which did say integrated loudness should be targeted between -20 and -16 LUFS. I will take a closer listen to your file soon and make some more recommendations if I can think of anything.

EDIT: On a second listen, I think that is not bad for an edit! For the pace of speech and it being recorded non-scripted, you cleaned up well most of the extra little words and umms, and it flowed fairly nicely. As you gain practice each edit will sound smoother probably. Do you have any specific questions about what you are doing?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Well thanks and thanks for taking another listen! One question I can think of is - how do you level match the audio of the individual speakers when one speaker is louder than another? I saw someone copy and paste a waveform and then adjust the clip gain until the waveforms looked about the same. That brought the audio of each speaker to about the same level... From there I increased the overall volume of the mix with a limiter until I reached -18 LUFS. Is that one acceptable way to level match?
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  #33  
Old 07-11-2022, 02:49 PM
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nednednerb nednednerb is offline
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Default Re: Post Production - where to start?

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Originally Posted by kol12 View Post
Well thanks and thanks for taking another listen! One question I can think of is - how do you level match the audio of the individual speakers when one speaker is louder than another? I saw someone copy and paste a waveform and then adjust the clip gain until the waveforms looked about the same. That brought the audio of each speaker to about the same level... From there I increased the overall volume of the mix with a limiter until I reached -18 LUFS. Is that one acceptable way to level match?
"Looks about the same" can be deceiving! With RX you can select the parts individually, and if you have the Waveform Statistics open, you might see that while they look pretty close, one speaker's LUFS integrated are 2-3 above or below another speaker. Overall the LUFS of the whole file will be somewhere between the LUFS of the louder and quieter portions of the audio.

RX "Leveler" module can potentially do some of the levelling for you. Set it to dialogue mode, and it will make the RMS consistent throughout, which will help approach your goal target loudness.

I could give a cautionary note that when the integrated loudness of the whole file level is -18 LUFS, but you raised an input passed a limiter threshold, that individual phrases or sentences might get distorted and too loud, and certain portions could still be below the target.

Sampling to find the LUFS at multiple locations in the file and using Leveler or manual gain staging with varying compression per speaker, -might- get a better overall result then approaching the level of the whole file with a limiter.

In one recurrent task I have, there are 15 minutes or so of a book being read aloud, and I am asked to break it down into "pages" and also a "whole" audio. I will run leveler on the whole file, but then at the last stage before setting the loudness compliance, I will level, compress, and maximize etc so each "page audio" is pretty close to my integrated LUFS target, then I use RX Loudness Control on the pages in RX bulk processor.

After that when I line up all the pages, the LUFS of the whole file will already be perfect, because the average of 5, 5, 5, and 5 is....[drumroll in Pro Tools, please...] 5!
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>> me: nednednerB //
||main gig: editing audio voiceovers & testing software | 2nd gig: music software tutoring | hobby: electronic music //
||software: Sonoma 14.2 | PT Studio 2023.12 | Ableton Live 11 | iZotope RX, Ozone, Neutron | Arturia Pigments | Auto-Tune | Dubler2 //
||system: iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020) 10-Core-i9 | 128GB-DDR4 | 5700-XT-16GB | OWC Thunderbolt Hub and Thunderbolt 3 Dock //
||devices: RME Babyface Pro FS | Focusrite Clarett 2Pre | some AT mics | SM58 | Ableton Push 2 | Sennheiser HD 600 HP // Onkyo TX-8220 SR
||automation: SoundFlow | Stream Deck+ | Keyboard Maestro | SteerMouse | MacOS Shortcuts //

Last edited by nednednerb; 07-11-2022 at 02:51 PM. Reason: clarity
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  #34  
Old 07-13-2022, 01:41 AM
kol12 kol12 is offline
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Default Re: Post Production - where to start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nednednerb View Post
"Looks about the same" can be deceiving! With RX you can select the parts individually, and if you have the Waveform Statistics open, you might see that while they look pretty close, one speaker's LUFS integrated are 2-3 above or below another speaker. Overall the LUFS of the whole file will be somewhere between the LUFS of the louder and quieter portions of the audio.

RX "Leveler" module can potentially do some of the levelling for you. Set it to dialogue mode, and it will make the RMS consistent throughout, which will help approach your goal target loudness.

I could give a cautionary note that when the integrated loudness of the whole file level is -18 LUFS, but you raised an input passed a limiter threshold, that individual phrases or sentences might get distorted and too loud, and certain portions could still be below the target.

Sampling to find the LUFS at multiple locations in the file and using Leveler or manual gain staging with varying compression per speaker, -might- get a better overall result then approaching the level of the whole file with a limiter.

In one recurrent task I have, there are 15 minutes or so of a book being read aloud, and I am asked to break it down into "pages" and also a "whole" audio. I will run leveler on the whole file, but then at the last stage before setting the loudness compliance, I will level, compress, and maximize etc so each "page audio" is pretty close to my integrated LUFS target, then I use RX Loudness Control on the pages in RX bulk processor.

After that when I line up all the pages, the LUFS of the whole file will already be perfect, because the average of 5, 5, 5, and 5 is....[drumroll in Pro Tools, please...] 5!
Thanks for the tips! Do you do any sound editing to video? That seems like a different kettle of fish...

P.S. What leveler do you use? Looks like I need RX Advanced to get leveler..
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  #35  
Old 07-17-2022, 11:53 PM
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nednednerb nednednerb is offline
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Default Re: Post Production - where to start?

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Originally Posted by kol12 View Post
Thanks for the tips! Do you do any sound editing to video? That seems like a different kettle of fish...

P.S. What leveler do you use? Looks like I need RX Advanced to get leveler..
Yes, I do some editing to video. It is a different kettle of fish than music editing indeed. One of the key things to keep in mind is your time base when working on audio in Pro Tools then using that audio in a video editing program. In music, you probably understand if you play at 120 BPM and I play at 122 BPM, eventually then, say Bar 10 Beat 1 will actually occur at a different Minute and Second. They are both Bar 10 Beat 1, just different tempo.

So, when you are exporting and delivering video, you will deliver that video at 24 Frames Per Second, or 25, or 29.97df, or 30 FPS, etc. THAT means you might need to consider how you "time" the audio in Pro Tools.

In fact, in the "Session" settings, you can set the "Timecode" rate to your final destination FPS.

Then, you can set the edit mode to Grid, not Slip, and set you Time Transport and Grid settings to Timecode"and 1 frame. That is similar to setting timecode to a Bar-Beats grid and quarter note.

THEN, the grid will edit on your FPS neatly. I use this in my regular work to line up a full length audio into pages that get set to the audio in a picture book video. All the audio is an exact number of frames at 30 FPS, so my picture is always locked correctly exactly when I want it. No drift, the start of audio files line up perfectly with the video frames, and so on. GOOD.

Another tip: If you want to do a trim or other edit which is momentarily off-Grid, if you hold Command or CTRL, your edit cursor will act as if you're in Slip mode, for a trim, fade, or slide etc.

As for your other question, my work is plentiful enough I am happy to afford RX Advanced. I use Leveler all the time and Dialogue Isolate. I could not justify the expense though if I was not making steady money editing.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
__________________
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>> me: nednednerB //
||main gig: editing audio voiceovers & testing software | 2nd gig: music software tutoring | hobby: electronic music //
||software: Sonoma 14.2 | PT Studio 2023.12 | Ableton Live 11 | iZotope RX, Ozone, Neutron | Arturia Pigments | Auto-Tune | Dubler2 //
||system: iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020) 10-Core-i9 | 128GB-DDR4 | 5700-XT-16GB | OWC Thunderbolt Hub and Thunderbolt 3 Dock //
||devices: RME Babyface Pro FS | Focusrite Clarett 2Pre | some AT mics | SM58 | Ableton Push 2 | Sennheiser HD 600 HP // Onkyo TX-8220 SR
||automation: SoundFlow | Stream Deck+ | Keyboard Maestro | SteerMouse | MacOS Shortcuts //
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  #36  
Old 07-19-2022, 05:10 PM
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TVPostSound TVPostSound is offline
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Default Re: Post Production - where to start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyDazzler View Post
Music mixing is like wardrobe, hair and makeup.
Post mixing is like plastic surgery!
You're being kind.

Emergency triage, and first aid. Never time for plastic surgery!!
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  #37  
Old 07-19-2022, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Post Production - where to start?

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Originally Posted by TVPostSound View Post
You're being kind.

Emergency triage, and first aid. Never time for plastic surgery!!
With some times a used bandage, or paper towel to stop the bleeding where you eventually have to say, "if he dies, he dies".
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  #38  
Old 07-20-2022, 12:51 AM
kol12 kol12 is offline
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Default Re: Post Production - where to start?

Would anybody be willing to share an AAF project (for learning purposes) that wouldn't be a privacy concern? It would be super helpful to further my learning!

Last edited by kol12; 07-20-2022 at 02:00 AM.
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  #39  
Old 07-20-2022, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: Post Production - where to start?

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Originally Posted by audiolex1 View Post
With some times a used bandage, or paper towel to stop the bleeding where you eventually have to say, "if he dies, he dies".
You can work with the GoPro audio right?
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  #40  
Old 08-31-2022, 01:03 AM
kol12 kol12 is offline
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Default Re: Post Production - where to start?

Hello Post Production community,

In the months since I started this thread I've learnt a lot more about Pro Tools but unfortunately am no closer in knowing how to get work and experience in this field. I approached several production company's which were all dead ends. Can anybody offer any advice?
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