Deliver Mix Sessions to platforms Amazon / Netflix / ...

[Gregor B.]

Dear All,

I have found and read that most people over the years haven't needed to deliver broadcast/theatrical PT mix sessions (containing all audio and mix automation) to clients. I have personally also not needed to do that, but it seems that this is asked for more and more nowadays.

At least one of the big streaming players currently lists the rather cryptic sounding asset "Pro Tools Session Stem Mix Session Files (.ptx) per episode" as part of their general delivery requirements. There is no further information whatsoever on what the session should or should not contain.

My general sentiment has been that delivering all sorts of deliverables to client but keeping and archiving the original session has been a rather straightforward approach.
It seems as though delivering mix sessions not only poses questions of some of the creative ownership of whatever is in that session (sound designer's recordings etc.) but also might open a pandora's box, in which qc reports now not only span over the various factions of how a mix might be flawed but also that a session is sorted incorrectly or signal flow problematic, or list virtually any other thing one might find in nowaday's mix sessions.

And finally, it enables any third party to create any possible deliverable straight from the source, which arguably a client should be able to do, after having paid for the service of having the show mixed.

I'm currently handling a case that was mixed by a colleague in which a large international post production provider sends QC reports that takes highly unusual liberties in flagging how loud certain foleys are mixed on page 1 and then offers to fix any flagged qc remarks themselves for a fee of xxx on page 4. I'm slightly amused.

Needless to say the post provider is now asking through the client for the original mix sessions :)

So I'm curious what everyone's approach is in dealing with this.

Thx + Best
Gregor

[diamondschwin]

If they are asking for stems in a session format then just give them just that. No need to provide your actual mix session.

[Gregor B.]

Originally Posted by diamondschwin

If they are asking for stems in a session format then just give them just that. No need to provide your actual mix session.

So you are reading "Pro Tools Session Stem Mix Session Files (.ptx) per episode" as "session that sums/mixes stems to master"?
I personally don't mix with printed predubs anymore, so for me no such session exists, but of course happy to give them D/M/E stems routed through a limiter into printmaster, if that's what they're asking.

I will say, this COULD be what the streamer is asking for in the delivery sheet, but the QC facility reads that differently and is now asking for the OV mix session, aka the actual mix session.
The streamer rep is also surprisingly clueless in understanding what the del. sheet might be referring to.

[its2loud]

Originally Posted by diamondschwin

If they are asking for stems in a session format then just give them just that. No need to provide your actual mix session.

Not necessarily true..

This came up with a popular streaming company about 6-7 years ago. They started asking for the original mix session. This was problematic considering this session contained original SFX and Music that the streaming company did not have the rights to. Having the session would allow them access to these effects and music elements that had been originally created by the sound designers and composers. Not to mention any special mix techniques by the Re-recording engineers. This was a huge Intellectual Property issue.

The solution was to say “no” we won’t provide the original session but we will give you proper mix stems. There was push back and months of negotiating and in the end it was suggested to the service that all source tracks in the mix session will be “frozen” or “committed” with all automation and plugins rendered and all original media removed from the session. This would be the “Mix” session delivered to the service.
In the end, this was the agreed upon format.

P.S. loud foley is not a QC issue. The reply to that is creative intent and leave as is.

[smurfyou]

Provide a PT session with all of your printed stems imported and laid out on the timeline in place.

I have no idea why they ask for this crap. If they use it they will import into their own templates so it's really not saving any time.

[quadraphonics]

I am not the streaming company in question, but I do wish more people would supply the dialogue mix sessions. Here is why:

We deal with a ton of foreign dubbing companies. That means the 'Optional' content needs vary from territory to territory. We try to be as thorough when setting up post houses to delivery to us to cover these requests, but there are more times than I care to count when I get requests for such and such to be split from the dialogue stem for dubbing purposes.

If I had the mix session, I could open it up and see if the request is possible and deliver it immediately. As it stands now, these requests start a big game of telephone and take multiple days to get resolved.

Also, it is much easier for a dubbing company to match special effects/reverbs and the like without having to rebuild from scratch. This makes matching between languages easier and better.

As for asking for the entire mix to be sent...

I can think of two reasons for this: 1.) Archival. In the case that say Netflix or Amazon wants to go back and remix for Dolby Atmos v3 or what have you, it MIGHT be easier for them to do that from a mix session than from stems. Same for cutting down for Airline/TV versions (maybe) if syndication came up.

Randall

Originally Posted by Gregor B.

Dear All,

I have found and read that most people over the years haven't needed to deliver broadcast/theatrical PT mix sessions (containing all audio and mix automation) to clients. I have personally also not needed to do that, but it seems that this is asked for more and more nowadays.

At least one of the big streaming players currently lists the rather cryptic sounding asset "Pro Tools Session Stem Mix Session Files (.ptx) per episode" as part of their general delivery requirements. There is no further information whatsoever on what the session should or should not contain.

My general sentiment has been that delivering all sorts of deliverables to client but keeping and archiving the original session has been a rather straightforward approach.
It seems as though delivering mix sessions not only poses questions of some of the creative ownership of whatever is in that session (sound designer's recordings etc.) but also might open a pandora's box, in which qc reports now not only span over the various factions of how a mix might be flawed but also that a session is sorted incorrectly or signal flow problematic, or list virtually any other thing one might find in nowaday's mix sessions.

And finally, it enables any third party to create any possible deliverable straight from the source, which arguably a client should be able to do, after having paid for the service of having the show mixed.

I'm currently handling a case that was mixed by a colleague in which a large international post production provider sends QC reports that takes highly unusual liberties in flagging how loud certain foleys are mixed on page 1 and then offers to fix any flagged qc remarks themselves for a fee of xxx on page 4. I'm slightly amused.

Needless to say the post provider is now asking through the client for the original mix sessions :)

So I'm curious what everyone's approach is in dealing with this.

Thx + Best
Gregor

[Kasper]

Just say no.

As stated above, give them a session with stems, nothing else.

I can think of one reason; they don't want to hire you for revisions or pay you more for foreign dubs.

Push back on this.

I assume you, like all freelancers, are hired to mix (edit, build, create) a show. Not to teach them how to do it, or give away your years of hard fought intellectual property (your mix techniques/templates)

Also, if you read the fine print on most SFX libraries you are specifically not allowed to distribute the individual SFX in their raw form; only in a "synchronized" format.

Kasper

[colinato]

Delivery of Pro Tools mix sessions is fairly standard for the big streamers at this point, primarily for archival purposes. You can freeze tracks if you want to. Netflix posts their specs online and are available to dig through.

https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.c...05967633-Sound

This excerpt is from their deliverable requirements:

"PROTOOLS SESSIONS
Premix and stage mix sessions should be consolidated with all linked media. Frozen or rendered tracks are acceptable if the facility prefers. Please perform a "File >> Save Copy In..." and select Audio Files under "Items to Copy" to consolidate files"

The Premix and Stage mix sessions they refer to are different from the Stem sessions.

Pro Tools Stems Sessions are exactly what has been mentioned by others above. Pro Tools sessions containing only your stems imported, in place on the timeline.

Delivering you mix session to a QC house to perform fixes and then charge for it on top of that would be absolutely out of the question in my book.

[Cheesehead]

I would absolutely refuse to send the original sessions.

Stems in PT sessions is fine although I don't see the point if you have well
labelled and structured deliverables.

It breaks the EULA of all the sound effects libraries for a start.

Not to mention intellectual property etc.
You don't spend years of hard work on your methods to just give them away to a streamer, where who knows has access to it.

[its2loud]

Originally Posted by Cheesehead

I would absolutely refuse to send the original sessions.

Stems in PT sessions is fine although I don't see the point if you have well
labelled and structured deliverables.

It breaks the EULA of all the sound effects libraries for a start.

Not to mention intellectual property etc.
You don't spend years of hard work on your methods to just give them away to a streamer, where who knows has access to it.

Sometimes just a Stems session is not fine and the network will push for the mix session and ultimately the client will push for it. This is the new dawn in deliverables.

The frozen or committed track option for Netflix was something I pushed for with with them and that was the compromise. Particularly because of SFX library licenses and intellectual property issues. Once tracks are frozen or rendered, all plug-in settings can be removed, thus protecting any artist mix creative input.

Committing the SFX per track will alleviate the ability for anyone else to pull out individual effects files from the session that originate from the library. If they really wanted the sfx they’d have to cut it out from the committed track and there would be no source data associated with that edit, only the audible sound. Which is really no different than cutting from an SFX stem.

The key thing to remember here is after committing all your tracks, you have to remove all of the original media from the session and Copy Save As a new session containing only the committed and newly rendered audio so that the none of original mix session media is contained.

This basically leaves them with your a original “mix” session with ability to only change levels per track. Everything else is baked in.