Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Virtual Instruments

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 09-06-2021, 09:58 AM
DonaldM's Avatar
DonaldM DonaldM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,386
Default Re: Reason 12 Has Been Released

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Avid has blocked AU/VST wrappers for the same reason why Avid insists on AAX, which is copy protection. 'nuff said. There are ways to host them, but they are not made easy to develop. Perhaps the most well known wrapper/host is Kontakt, but Avid has made sure with NI that the copy protection holds.

Of course the official reason is that because of the control surfaces, Avid needs to be able to design how plugin automation goes with them.

As they say, trust is good but control is better.

Janne, I'm not sure that's right. Blue Cat's Patchwork and their Multiband plugin both host VST's just fine in PT. So I see no reason why Reason can't do the same. I don't think its accurate to say Avid has blocked wrappers since there are some out there that work in PT. If Blue Cat can do it, why not Reason?
__________________
"Never believe anything you hear in a song." Tyrion Lannister, Game of Thrones
Owner: Dragon Rock Productions LLC


Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-06-2021, 10:28 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Sopranos State (NJ)
Posts: 18,749
Default Re: Reason 12 Has Been Released

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Avid has blocked AU/VST wrappers for the same reason why Avid insists on AAX, which is copy protection. 'nuff said. There are ways to host them, but they are not made easy to develop. Perhaps the most well known wrapper/host is Kontakt, but Avid has made sure with NI that the copy protection holds.

Of course the official reason is that because of the control surfaces, Avid needs to be able to design how plugin automation goes with them.

As they say, trust is good but control is better.
You're talking about wrappers. Donald and I are talking about hosts which is what the Reason rack is. Wrappers modify the code and hosts don't. It doesn't matter which daw you run the Reason rack in - it can't host external vi's in it but you can in standalone.
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-06-2021, 10:33 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 22,119
Default Re: Reason 12 Has Been Released

I don't want to touch this any deeper, but let's just say that for example Kontakt is only developed in VST and it is wrapped in other formats. They (NI) have had to work with Apple and Avid to get it wrapped to AU and AAX (respectively) and while the former failed in providing proper copy protection, the latter succeeded.
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-06-2021, 10:36 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Sopranos State (NJ)
Posts: 18,749
Default Re: Reason 12 Has Been Released

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldM View Post
Jack - Here you go. And I totally agree, why you can't host VST versions of VI's in the rack is a mystery to me too. However, what you can do is use the rack to add some of the Reason FX after a VI on an instrument track, or use one or more of the players to control another VI on another track. But, yeah, they need to make it so VSTs can be hosted in the rack. Do that and Reason becomes the most powerful VI on the planet!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldM View Post
AFAIK, the upgrade price remains the same and from any prior version, as I understand it. But, don't quote me on that. I haven't seen otherwise.
I have a support ticket in with the PropHeads about the sale. But I just found out something that's turned me off - Friktion modeled strings is NOT included in Reason but it is in Reason+ which is their subscription. In regular Reason I'd have to pay $99 to get it as a rack extention and that ain't happening. There's a whole bunch of synths that aren't included in Reason but are in Reason+. To say I'm bummed doesn't begin to describe how I feel
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-06-2021, 10:52 AM
DonaldM's Avatar
DonaldM DonaldM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,386
Default Re: Reason 12 Has Been Released

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
I have a support ticket in with the PropHeads about the sale. But I just found out something that's turned me off - Friktion modeled strings is NOT included in Reason but it is in Reason+ which is their subscription. In regular Reason I'd have to pay $99 to get it as a rack extention and that ain't happening. There's a whole bunch of synths that aren't included in Reason but are in Reason+. To say I'm bummed doesn't begin to describe how I feel

Yeah, Jack, they're obviously want to provide incentive for users to move to the subscription model. If they didn't have extras for doing that, few probably would. So they give you extra RE's in plus, along with libraries and such. And, of course, with the subscription, just as with Avid, you get all the updates along the way, all for the low price of $199 per year or $19.99 per month. Personally, I don't mind the subscription model over all, seems to have worked out nicely with PT. But, where Reason is concerned, until they fix the VST hosting, I'm not interested in upgrading or subscribing.

There are some other features I'd like to see as well such as MIDI IN/OUT on the back side with the ability to use their virtual cables to send MIDI whereever you want. Imagine using Dual Arp to control 2 different VI's each on its own MIDI cable. Right now none of the players have any MIDI IN/OUT capabilities. I know the idea is under consideration because I suggested directly to Reason and one of their tech guys emailed me to ask a couple more questions about what I had in mind.

But I haven't seen or heard a peep about the VST hosting request.
__________________
"Never believe anything you hear in a song." Tyrion Lannister, Game of Thrones
Owner: Dragon Rock Productions LLC


Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-06-2021, 10:56 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Sopranos State (NJ)
Posts: 18,749
Default Re: Reason 12 Has Been Released

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldM View Post
Yeah, Jack, they're obviously want to provide incentive for users to move to the subscription model. If they didn't have extras for doing that, few probably would. So they give you extra RE's in plus, along with libraries and such. And, of course, with the subscription, just as with Avid, you get all the updates along the way, all for the low price of $199 per year or $19.99 per month. Personally, I don't mind the subscription model over all, seems to have worked out nicely with PT. But, where Reason is concerned, until they fix the VST hosting, I'm not interested in upgrading or subscribing.

There are some other features I'd like to see as well such as MIDI IN/OUT on the back side with the ability to use their virtual cables to send MIDI whereever you want. Imagine using Dual Arp to control 2 different VI's each on its own MIDI cable. Right now none of the players have any MIDI IN/OUT capabilities. I know the idea is under consideration because I suggested directly to Reason and one of their tech guys emailed me to ask a couple more questions about what I had in mind.

But I haven't seen or heard a peep about the VST hosting request.
I went back to your post #7 here and in it, if I read it right, you state that you can use the players to work with synths on another track. Or am I missing something here?
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-06-2021, 01:45 PM
DonaldM's Avatar
DonaldM DonaldM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,386
Default Re: Reason 12 Has Been Released

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
I went back to your post #7 here and in it, if I read it right, you state that you can use the players to work with synths on another track. Or am I missing something here?

No, that is correct. Try this:


Create 2 instrument tracks. On track 1 open the rack and install one of the players, Dual Arp, say. Put a simple MIDI chord progression it on it.

On Track two, instantiate a VI. Record arm the VI track and select the track with the player on it as the input. Hit play. The player will play your VI.


Or, if you record arm both tracks you can use your MIDI controller to play your chord progression live, but all you will hear is what the player is playing based on your chord input.


Then, if you wish, you can record the output of the player as MIDI notes on track two just by hitting record in the transport. That can be useful is you want to try several options. Just copy each MIDI version to a MIDI track and then you can play those back on your VI later to see which ones you like best.
__________________
"Never believe anything you hear in a song." Tyrion Lannister, Game of Thrones
Owner: Dragon Rock Productions LLC


Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-07-2021, 05:53 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Sopranos State (NJ)
Posts: 18,749
Default Re: Reason 12 Has Been Released

Just heard back from support and yes I'm eligible for the $129 upgrade from R8.5. The second thing is the support person said he saw nothing on his system of an impending change in the upgrade price. As to how long the price is good for he just gave the standard line of 'we reserve the right to change....'.


Browsing the ReasonTalk forum and found out that with Reason 12 you can no longer opt out of sending stats/usage and error reporting to the company. It was possible in R11 and is not possible now. This may well be the deal breaker for me. See page 13 in this thread: https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtop...4373&start=300


update:
Just got a response from the Reason Talk forum and there's no plan to go back to being able to opt out of sending the data. I don't give a rat's posterior but I don't see any reason (bad pun I know) why anyone has to know what I'm doing. Upshot is no upgrade for me. Having the Reason Rack would have been nice but not with this bs. Combine that with what I've been reading about this upgrade being half-arsed and you'll know where I'm coming from.
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!

Last edited by musicman691; 09-07-2021 at 01:32 PM. Reason: update from ReasonTalk forum
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-09-2021, 12:18 PM
DonaldM's Avatar
DonaldM DonaldM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,386
Default Re: Reason 12 Has Been Released

I'm not jumping on it either, Jack. Like I said, unless they add VST hosting in rack mode, not interested in upgrading. Really not all that interested in additional RE's...I have so many VI's and plugins now. Its not like I'm missing the magic one!
__________________
"Never believe anything you hear in a song." Tyrion Lannister, Game of Thrones
Owner: Dragon Rock Productions LLC


Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-09-2021, 06:54 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Sopranos State (NJ)
Posts: 18,749
Default Re: Reason 12 Has Been Released

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldM View Post
I'm not jumping on it either, Jack. Like I said, unless they add VST hosting in rack mode, not interested in upgrading. Really not all that interested in additional RE's...I have so many VI's and plugins now. Its not like I'm missing the magic one!
The only RE I really want is Friktion and I don't know if that will run on R8.3. Other than that after an honest run through of what I have I find the sounds in Reason a bit tired especially as compared to what we have these days.
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
UAD v9.3 released Drew Mazurek AAX Plug-ins 0 08-10-2017 09:27 AM
MBOX, Reason 2.0, macbook, pro-tools 7.3 (no reason plug in) tahiti78 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 4 02-11-2008 08:11 AM
Upgrade PT Reason Adapted to FULL Reason ...Price? bluesigns 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 2 10-09-2003 07:04 AM
Reason 2.0 is released?????? says so at harmony Central... ckerian 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 2 06-19-2002 12:38 AM
Is 5.01 for mac released yet or not? carloswarlick 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 5 06-11-2000 12:22 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:21 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com