DVTK and CPTK questions

[L-Dogg]

I would like to write soundtrack compositions. Since I have LE and cannot afford HD....I feel I need one of these two toolkits.

So, other than Structure LE, Eleven LE and Hybrid.......... it seems that the main differences between these two toolkits is the surround capability, more instrument tracks, more audio tracks/busses....AND the ability to run Beat Detective over multiple tracks in the CPTK.

Is this accurate? I already have Smack LE, the MP3 Option and DINR LE so these do not influence me. Plus, I also have Eleven Rack so it's debatable whether I should have the Eleven LE plug.

Both these toolkits have the same Timecode, pull up/down, Digitranslator, TL Space and X-Form plug in features, from what I see.

Here is what I am wondering.

Question 1-Surround.Is it a smart move to buy the CPTK to get the actual Avid surround capability? My studio is not setup for surround. Even if it was, wouldn't I just be sending stems of my completed compositions to the editor/music mixers at the production post house where THEY would create the surround mixes? On killer systems

Question 2-Extra Instrument Tracks. What is the point of having all those extra instrument tracks when right now I get several going and I am already running into issues with performance?
What I find I have to do is is print to track and then lose the VI plug-in to help CPU hit.

Question 3-Extra Audio tracks and busses. How many of you are running into issues where you need that many tracks and busses?

Question 4- Multiple Track Beat Detective. How useful is this to have in film composing? Personally I have never used it even just in regular songwriting recordings.

So basically, all things considered........ is it worth the extra $700 between these two toolkits to get the CPTK and be done with it?

It will be great to hear from anyone who does this kind of work and/or who uses either of these toolkits.


Thanks folks.

[albee1952]

Good question. My 2 cents(and I stick to pretty mainstream stereo mixing so take that into account):
Question 1-Surround. if you aren't setup for it, then its useless...at least for now(planning for the future is never a bad idea)

Question 2-Extra Instrument Tracks. hard to answer without knowing anything about your computer(maybe you need a better one). How much VI capability do you need? I use 3-4 tops, but you may have a need for 20

Question 3-Extra Audio tracks and busses. how many audio tracks do you think you will need? As for busses, I am amazed when some complain that 32 is just terrible and they can't work with that number(I myself have only run out 1 time in 5 years). Totally depends on your style of recording/mixing. Remember those big old analog consoles that had 12 busses....or less


Question 4- Multiple Track Beat Detective. can't say as I never really had much success using it. I do love Elastic Audio. But how much of film composing is rhythmic(where BD really shines)?

As for the price difference, don't be afraid to shop the used market(Buy&Sell section here, eBay and AIRusers blog are 3 good sources of deals). I hope some with more targeted experience will chime in

[nst7]

L-Dogg,

I didn't see an email on your profile, but if you're interested, I have a DV Toolkit basic asset license (minus the plugins) that I'm going to sell. It might be ideal if you don't want to spend that much money and you already have some of the other stuff.

Email me at: naya7 (at) cinci.rr.com.

If it's mainly scoring, I think 64 tracks should be pretty good. The 128 tracks of complete toolkit is more important for those doing the whole post production: Music and dialogue and effects, etc. It sounds like you're mainly focusing on the music that you will hand off to others.

[L-Dogg]

I didn't see an email on your profile, but if you're interested......

E mail coming at you, thanks.

hard to answer without knowing anything about your computer(maybe you need a better one). How much VI capability do you need?

My computer is in my sig. It is the MacPro that is in my studio. It's not nearly the latest and greatest but it is no slouch.

As far as the VI's.......well, I could see having well in excess of 8 -10 plus the usual reverbs, compressors,limiters, delays etc etc etc and other plugs and at the end of the deal I usually throw Ozone 4 across the Master although I could do that on another session to the stereo final mix.

I guess what I was asking about was how can they say you can have that many instrument tracks to begin with..... when I am certain most people are getting lean VI counts in LE on a Mac, based on what I have read.

I mean quite a few people I have talked with, including Spectrasonics, and threads at different forums... have said that the RTAS environment is not that great for multiple VI's. I hear a bunch of talk about guys using Reaper or Logic to run VI's and then taking that audio to Pro Tools and I also read about people using other computers to run the VI's.

CPTK has been around since G5's correct? Granted VI's have become way more CPU intense...... but how can they offer that many instrument tracks in the CPTK based on the computers they had when CPTK was released? Is there something about the actual toolkit that enables LE to handle VI's more efficiently, so it HONESTLY gets you a higher VI count in a single session?


I mean we are also taking a bunch more audio tracks and busses. The whole deal is geared to providing the ability to run a bunch more stuff........yet computers have only just made the huge leaps in processor counts in the last few years...only recently to 8 and 12.

[John_Toolbox]

Originally Posted by L-Dogg

CPTK has been around since G5's correct? Granted VI's have become way more CPU intense...... but how can they offer that many instrument tracks in the CPTK based on the computers they had when CPTK was released? Is there something about the actual toolkit that enables LE to handle VI's more efficiently, so it HONESTLY gets you a higher VI count in a single session?


I mean we are also taking a bunch more audio tracks and busses. The whole deal is geared to providing the ability to run a bunch more stuff........yet computers have only just made the huge leaps in processor counts in the last few years...only recently to 8 and 12.

Keep in mind that regardless of number of CPUs and amount of RAM, Pro Tools is still a 32 bit app and can not access more than 3-3.5GB of RAM. This includes VI's hosted within it. If you want to host lots of VI's you should seriously consider options like Audioport Universal, Bidule or VE pro. Trying to create an orchestral mockup of any significant size isn't going to work well in PT unless you are constantly rendering your VI's as audio tracks.

[L-Dogg]

Originally Posted by John_Toolbox

Pro Tools is still a 32 bit app and can not access more than 3-3.5GB of RAM. This includes VI's hosted within it.

Exactly, this is what I was alluding to. So really it is a bit misleading the CPTK specs saying you get all these extra instrument tracks, if the computer still will not be able to run more than the meager amount it could handle before the CPTK.

Originally Posted by John_Toolbox

Trying to create an orchestral mockup of any significant size isn't going to work well in PT unless you are constantly rendering your VI's as audio tracks.

This is what I have been doing up to now. Not with an entire orchestra's worth, but still. Do a lot of composers use these solutions? I had never heard of Audioport Universal or VE Pro. Bidule I have heard the name but did not know what it did.

Checking those out now....thank you.