What Avid Doesn't Want HD Users To Know

[Andy R]

Originally Posted by lennieh

For Protools 10 there is a big gain in that it would allow you to use a couple of the key features that are not available to HD Accel users such as the enhanced Delay Compensation, and possibly the 64-bit float mixing engine (I'm not sure about that) - albeit t the expense of not being able to use TDM plugins and features such as HEAT.

Aha, I got it now. To me, it sounds more like something they just didn't think of, rather than something devious.

Has Avid responded yet? I would imagine this is something they could fix.

Enhanced delay comp may not work in TDM, but if it works via ASIO with $250 mbox, it should work with a 192 via ASIO.

[Matt_G]

Still no reply from DigiTechSupport or Max...

[Andy R]

I would imagine they are investigating the issue, which might take a couple weeks. That said, a simple "we're looking into it" would be nice!. :)

However, if this issue is not addressed in a timely manor, I would say any rancor from the PT community is entirely appropriate.

[Matt_G]

Here is another interesting thing I discovered today...

With my system I also have a Lynx AES16e card installed so I thought.. hmmm maybe I could use this with PT 9 HD Native or 10 HD Native as the main I/O and use the Digidesign 192 digital I/O as a core audio device for my Sonic soundBlade software (all running on the same machine). Currently I'm using PT HD with the 192 for PT's & Sonic soundBlade with the Lynx AES card for capture off the analog chain.

So I tried it out with PT9 HD... launched PT's selected the AES-16e card as my native I/O. Checked the I/O preferences & sure enough I have 32 channels of I/O for use with Pro Tools HD Native. So far so good..

Then I launched Sonic soundBlade & went to the I/O but the Digidesign HW (HD) was unavailable. So I opened the Digi Core Audio Manager & confirmed my suspicions that PT's was hogging the use of the I/O & core audio driver even though it wasn't being used with Pro Tools at the time. I'm assuming that PT's wants to reserve the HD hardware just incase you decide you want to go back to using the TDM engine but this is where it starts getting silly. In order to swap between Native or TDM engines you have to confirm, quit & relaunch PT's anyway so why does PT's need to reserve the HD hardware or 192 I/O when running in Native engine mode??

I guess this is why it's not possible to choose the Digidesign core audio driver under the Native Engine or with 3rd party software while PT's is open.

Without being willing to give up, I decided to try one other workaround. I quit PT's & Sonic. Launched Sonic first, set it up using the Digi 192 I/O under core audio manager. Then I launched PT's HD 9 & lo & behold it launched in native mode with the Lynx AES-16e card under Core Audio. Looking at the 'Playback Engine' options confirms that it completely ignored the HD hardware (because it was unavailable/in use) and launched natively with the AES-16e as the core audio I/O.

So I am now able to use PT's 9 HD or 10 HD natively (with a 3rd party interface in this case the Lynx AES16e) & still use the Digidesign Digital 192 I/O in Core Audio mode at the same time with a 3rd party DAW (Sonic soundBlade in this case).

Still seems a bit ridiculous that I should have to go to these lengths in order to get a workaround when it would be so much easier if Avid just made the 192 I/O available as a core audio driver option for PT's HD running in Native Engine mode. Even more ridiculous that I need to use a 3rd party I/O interface in Native engine mode & that I have to use the 192 Digi interface with soundBlade.

[Bushpig]

Matt,

Thanks so much for your campaigning on this issue. I'm a long time HD user and with the announcement of the HDX hardware and the EOL for older systems (all of which I understand and can get on board with. Progress is progress etc), for the first time ever I've been forced to focus on how Avid handle the separation of the software from hardware.

I've never even bothered to wrap my head around what using the Core Audio engine with PT and/or 192's in third party apps involves, but when I thought carefully about it after following this thread, I realised that I might find myself in the situation in the not too distant future of facing the catch 22 choice of finding the money to upgrade both my HD3 PCIe systems to HDX (will be VERY difficult in the current economic climate), or use my older hardware in native mode to extend the life of my (not insubstantial over the years) investment in Avid/Digi products. To find out this is intentionally forbidden by Avid makes me a touch annoyed.

OK fine, I'd have to sacrifice the whole TDM architecture to run native, but I can handle that. This WOULD be my way of transitioning towards the future. Not least of which because PT as a 32 bit program and all the associated RTAS VI problems and low memory tripe, has me thoroughly pulling my hair out. I am a prime example of the classic long time PT customer who would love to migrate to the newer Avid interfaces and/or also 2 new HDX systems as soon as it's possible within my budget, but to not be unable to run native via my old hardware as an interim solution is just insanity. Avid is not going to force me over to new gear this way. They're simply going to force me to buy third party hardware. Really Avid? Really? Seems very short sighted to me.

As your last successful test clearly demonstrates, we are being wilfully penalised for owning ONLY Avid/Digidesign equipment exclusively. Madness.

My hope is that Avid can't say so yet, for various marketing and stock price reasons, but that when PT11 (or the 64 bit version) comes along, they will finally open up the older hardware to full Core Audio functionality and therefore help users such as myself to migrate gracefully. I hope this is the case.

Regards

Steve Bush
www.music180.com/pros/5887

[Bushpig]

Matt,

Haven't seen you around. How's the fudge working out? Daft as it is.

Cheers

Steve Bush
www.music180.com/pros/5887

[Matt_G]

hi Steve, thanks for your thoughts. I've signed up to the Avid support plan to get PT's 10HD (still waiting for the license to be deposited) and I've only just installed Lion yesterday so I haven't been able to test anything further at the present moment.

I'm still running my main work rig with PT's 9 HD with the TDM Engine and Sonic soundBlade with the Lynx AES16e as usual.

I'll let you know how I go when I get it all set up with PT's 10HD in the coming weeks.

I've got a meeting with the Australian Avid product manager on Monday 21st so I'll be asking some of these tough questions to him then. I have heard though that Avid will be releasing HEAT for use with non-DSP versions of PT's 10 which is good news for a lot of people. Those that already have the HEAT license will get the native version at no extra charge. Same with all Digidesign Plug-Ins, they'll be ported to AAX & if you own the license free upgrade to AAX.

So things are looking up in some ways. I definitely won't be buying any more Avid hardware though. I'll keep my current HD cards & 192 Digital I/O in my existing machine & I'll be buying a 2nd machine with another Lynx AES16e card to run PT's 10HD Native. That way I can also have a 2nd DAW for when I open a B room in the near future. Doesn't make sense to trade it in to buy a HD Native card.

Would still Love for Avid to allow the digi core audio driver to work with PT's 10 HD running in 'Native Engine' mode though. This would really make things a lot easier for me. For me to use the Lynx card for PT's & the Digi 192 I/O with Sonic I'll need to completely re-wire my studio. Which I'll probably have to do if they don't respond to this request. But it would make things harder in the future if I wanted to use the Digi interface with Pro Tools again without re-wiring the studio again.

[kazuomik]

That sounds great news on HEAT.

[Dizzi45Z]

Matt,

I just came across your post today. I was the person who was quoted in your original post with the idea of running our HD hardware in native mode. Thank you for going through all of the effort of campaigning and clarifying this issue with everyone.

+1 with everything you have said.

[zedhed]

Originally Posted by Matt_G

Can I get an answer why it's not possible to run my 192 Digital I/O in PT's 10 HD in 'Standalone' (native mode) when I can use it with any other 3rd party core audio DAW??

A perfectly rational and reasonable question which deserves a relevant answer from someone in the tech dept. rather than someone connected to marketing dept.

Avid?