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  #1  
Old 11-18-2011, 04:49 AM
adamqlw adamqlw is offline
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Default Eleven Rack MIDI Out/Thru

Hi guys,

I have run into a snag working with some MIDI commands, wonder if anyone might be able to help me out. When I play live, I have some backing tracks that I use through Pro Tools. I have a MIDI track set up with program changes to control my Eleven Rack (set to channel 1). My vocalist would like to set up a MIDI track to control his VoiceLive 2 (over channel 2). I tried to create 2 tracks, one putting out MIDI to channel 1 and one to channel 2, but it seems the Eleven Rack only puts out data for the channel that it is set to listen on.

I could be misunderstanding the concept of MIDI, but I thought I would be able to have the 11R set to channel 1 so it will only respond to mesages on that channel, but also pass on data from channel 2 to another device through the MIDI out. I have tried this with the THRU function both and on off, and also with MIDI-OX, but to no avail.

Do I need to have another MIDI out device to make this setup work (I have tested it, it's feasible and it does work, but it would be nice to run 1 MIDI cable to my 11R from the drummer's MBox 2 and then from the OUT/THRU on to the VoiceLive, simply from a live implementation perspective)

I have already combed through the manual (and the PT manual as well!) but couldn't find the solution in there.. if any devs or people smarter than me (and there are plenty of you:)) can help, it would be much appreciated!
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  #2  
Old 11-18-2011, 06:55 AM
madgt621 madgt621 is offline
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Default Re: Eleven Rack MIDI Out/Thru

Sorry I don't have a solution for this. But i did some kind of testing with VI's and MIDI CC's since i don't currently have a device that is built to really change with PC messages besides the 11R with me right now, and I only have one MIDI cable. But here's what I did. In this case I did "CH.x" since I tried it on multiple channels other than channel 1 (which is what my 11R is set to) and it worked. The stuff in parenthesis is MIDI I/O.

Flow #1: KORG microKONTROL -> MIDI Track 1 -> (11R External CH.x Out) -> Fireface 800 -> (Fireface 800 Ch.x In) -> MIDI Track 2 -> (plugin: Mini Grand) -> Mini Grand Inst Track

Flow #2: Same but replace "MIDI Track 2" with "MIDI Track 3", and I used an instance of XPand2 on another instrument track.

So, with the FF800 being the main interface, I was sending out of PT via 11R External on two different channels simultaneously back into the FF800. MIDI Track 2 and MIDI track 3 received two different channels respectively. And in the end I was able to control both Mini Grand and Xpand2 simultaneously.

But I think for your case, your MIDI track sending PC messages to the 11R would be going to "Eleven Rig" and the MIDI cable to the VoiceLive would be "11R External" right? I think I can try to do something like MIDI Track -> 11R Rig, and another external out back into the FF800 and into Kontakt when I have more time. I think that should work...
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Macbook Pro OSX 10.6.8, 2.53 GHz Core 2 Duo, 8 GB RAM
Pro Tools 10.0.0
Ableton Live 8.2.1
RME Fireface 800
Eleven Rack
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2011, 06:32 PM
madgt621 madgt621 is offline
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Default Re: Eleven Rack MIDI Out/Thru

ok so I did a second test with Kontakt, being that it accepts PC messages for Instrument Banks. So here are the flows. As with the last one, "Ch.x" stands for any other channel other than Ch.1, as thats what my 11R is receiving on. Again, the parenthesis mark MIDI I/O.

Flow #1: MIDI Track 1 -> (11R Rig Ch.1) -> 11R

Flow #2: MIDI Track 2 -> (11R External Ch.x) -> FF800 -> (FF800 Ch.x) -> MIDI Track 3 -> (plugin: Kontakt Ch.1) -> Kontakt

The end result?

Success. Simultaneous switching of presets/instruments occurred.

Again to reiterate, FF800 was the main interface, though I sent the MIDI out through the 11R and back into the FF800.

I should point out though that NONE of the MIDI tracks should be selected. If one is selected, it will start receiving info its not supposed to, kind of like an OMNI setting. In my case, Kontakt received the 11R's PC messages and the one's meant for Kontakt, but it was soon remedied.

So yeah, all seems to be fine. Maybe it's an OS thing? If you're on Windows then it may treat MIDI differently. Mac has an Audio MIDI setup that differs from Windows. Though I don't think that would be the problem, its something I can't test for because I don't have a Windows machine.
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Macbook Pro OSX 10.6.8, 2.53 GHz Core 2 Duo, 8 GB RAM
Pro Tools 10.0.0
Ableton Live 8.2.1
RME Fireface 800
Eleven Rack
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  #4  
Old 11-19-2011, 04:46 AM
adamqlw adamqlw is offline
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Default Re: Eleven Rack MIDI Out/Thru

Hey thanks a lot for taking the time to run the tests! Much appreciated. Looks like the MIDI out from PT gets filtered by the 11R. Will experiment further. Thanks man!
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2011, 09:09 AM
adamqlw adamqlw is offline
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Default Re: Eleven Rack MIDI Out/Thru

Okay, finally had some time to run the tests myself. It looks like MIDI THRU passes through all data that arrives at the physical MIDI IN port to the physical MIDI OUT port. Selecting Eleven Rack as the MIDI out in Pro Tools results in the MIDI channels being filtered as per the Eleven Rack settings. A curious implementation (IMHO), but it seems like I won't have much difficulty getting it to work for my purposes anyway. Thanks again madgt621, you really went above and beyond!
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2011, 04:28 AM
madgt621 madgt621 is offline
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Default Re: Eleven Rack MIDI Out/Thru

Don't mention it. It wasn't a terribly complicated test or anything like that, though I kind of overcomplicated it for the sake of seeing exactly what messages where being sent where. I really do believe that it should be able to send out the PC changes to your vocalist's rig though.

But if it's working for you than it's all good. Who cares about vocalists anyway? haha just kidding... ...kind of...
__________________
Macbook Pro OSX 10.6.8, 2.53 GHz Core 2 Duo, 8 GB RAM
Pro Tools 10.0.0
Ableton Live 8.2.1
RME Fireface 800
Eleven Rack
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