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Old 08-22-2022, 10:03 AM
snowplaysmusic snowplaysmusic is offline
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Default How often does your Pro Tools crash on your Mac hardware?

Hey, I've been in Pro Tools land for almost 20 years. I can't stand my Windows computer anymore. It crashes all the time -- many times per day. I am looking to make a big investment into Mac hardware. I was wondering how often your Pro Tools crashes. Could you please list how often it crashes, what hardware you have, and what you are doing when it crashes? Is it once per day, once per week, rarely? Is it when you are tracking, or doing heavy mixes? Any information would be helpful.
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Old 08-22-2022, 10:33 AM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default Re: How often does your Pro Tools crash on your Mac hardware?

I’m a Mac user, but can confidently say that if Pro Tools is crashing multiple times per day, something is wrong.

I definitely favour the Mac platform, but there’s probably a reason why it’s running so badly on your system. If you provide your system specs and the errors you’re having in the appropriate forum, I’m sure our Windows users will be able to assist in troubleshooting.


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  #3  
Old 08-22-2022, 10:55 AM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
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Default Re: How often does your Pro Tools crash on your Mac hardware?

I am also on the Mac platform. I'm more a hobbyist nowadays, but was doing studio work for the past 25 years. I can't remember the last time my Mac crashed due to Protools, (maybe 7 years ago?). Take that with a grain of salt as I'm sure others have had crashes and I don't want to give you an improper sense of stability. The current state of the Mac platform is is flux since Apple is transitioning from Intel processors to Apple Silicon processors and the OS is straddling both platforms still. Plugins that have not been updated seem to be a cause of some issues.
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  #4  
Old 08-22-2022, 11:16 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: How often does your Pro Tools crash on your Mac hardware?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowplaysmusic View Post
Hey, I've been in Pro Tools land for almost 20 years. I can't stand my Windows computer anymore. It crashes all the time -- many times per day. I am looking to make a big investment into Mac hardware. I was wondering how often your Pro Tools crashes. Could you please list how often it crashes, what hardware you have, and what you are doing when it crashes? Is it once per day, once per week, rarely? Is it when you are tracking, or doing heavy mixes? Any information would be helpful.
You already are confusing two things. the computer aka Windows crashing or Pro Tools crashing. Which is it? and because you are not clear here who knows what answers from folks will be about? And what exact crashes are you getting? what Windows bluescreen or AAE or ASSERT error or what *exactly* happens?

You should pick Mac or Windows based on the environment you are most comfortable working in. Both can be stable if you set them up correctly and troubleshoot them well when they have problems. And Mac are typically more work to keep up to date with and more hassles due to macOS changes and processor hardware changes, so if you are having troubles managing a Windows setup I would NOT switch to Mac expecting it to be easier for you to manage.

Standard troubleshooting instructions is under "help us help you" up top on each DUC web page. Start there, post a SiSoft Sandra report as expected, is the system *fully* optimized? Describe exactly what is happening and what troubleshooting you have tried.

Have you tried to get help here or from Avid support before? From a very quick look the only post from you that seems relevant is stuff hanging (not crashing?) with a white screen? Like this thread https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=415405. And there I can see what looks like you might be misunderstanding how to troubleshoot for plugin related issues (you need to move the .aaxplugin files out of the plugin folder, just not using a plugin in a session does not mean much, installed plugins can still cause grief and do so frequently, and no mention of trashing prefs, or testing from a new admin user account, so who knows if you did those or not but some glaring obvious basic things at least not being discussed). And a 64 core Threadripper likely places you outside of the standard usage/coverage so maybe you might expect to turn up some problems, but hopefully they only happen under extreme load/thread count. But I'd focus on working through standard troubleshooting there. As much as I love AMD EPYC and Threadripper platforms that's a pretty extreme environment for Pro Tools, I wonder if it's worth the hit in clock rate and thermal throttling etc. vs. more modest core counts. What are you doing with all that? Running huge composition/VI sessions? Are you making use of freeze/commit to tame some CPU load?And you should double check that the DIMMs in that build are on the VQL, I think they are and any difference is just retail packaging/naming, but check... end-user memory tests very often do not find problems and do not mean the memory is known good. At 256GB with Threadripper I'd have gone ECC with memory,... that's a nice cosmic ray detector you have there. I'm curious how you have you handled the "rotated" Threadripper chip and what heatsink/fan/case you used for cooling. Are you monitoring CPU core and DRAM temps? (I'm a fan, pun intended, of the Lenovo P620 in large part because they have very nice packaging and Threadripper and DRAM cooling, even with a power supply that could do with more grunt, not for Pro Tools use for me though).

If you have other past thread that better covers your problem(s) then can you link to it here.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 08-22-2022 at 01:34 PM.
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  #5  
Old 08-22-2022, 11:52 AM
nednednerb nednednerb is offline
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Default Re: How often does your Pro Tools crash on your Mac hardware?

Up until this Spring, I was using a Mac Pro Trashcan from 2013 that was crashing several times a day by the time I stopped using it. I could no longer work on multi-track music, just single track audio editing, which luckily was all "work" demanded at the time.

I have a "new" iMac 2020, and I no longer crash as much.

But as hinted above by others, it's a computer, hardware, and/or configuration problem, not a Windows/Pro Tools problem by itself.

I don't need to go into my Trash Can details, but there were at least 2-3 things about it that were problematic after so many years and 3rd party upgrades, etc. I tried troubleshooting. Realized, "this is old, barely supported hardware config, and it can no longer keep up"...

Honestly, I recommend you stay on Windows, either fixing your config or perhaps unfortunately replace the hardware. Unless you have other reasons to switch to MacOS, now is not a good time for that, as Darryl says above. MacOS is more confusing and in between. Windows is not, as much, right now.
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  #6  
Old 08-22-2022, 12:00 PM
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audiobob audiobob is offline
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Default Re: How often does your Pro Tools crash on your Mac hardware?

I'm on a Mac...currently M1 Max but of course Intel before that, and can't remember the last time Pro Tools crashed. Was also on Windows for about a year in 2018 and can't remember Pro Tools crashing either. PT was very stable for me on Windows...I moved back to Mac because I prefer the workflow.

I'd follow Darryl's advice.
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  #7  
Old 08-22-2022, 05:29 PM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: How often does your Pro Tools crash on your Mac hardware?

I know you asked about Mac, but since you are on windows, I felt it worth commenting. I run a properly-built custom PC that is pushing 7 years old and I have not had a crash in several years. My average mix is 60-70 tracks with several dozen plugins with an HDN card and 192 IO. Just so you know its possible
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  #8  
Old 08-22-2022, 06:02 PM
thebeatless thebeatless is offline
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Default Re: How often does your Pro Tools crash on your Mac hardware?

Pro Tools on Windows was rock solid for me! I went back to Mac for soundflow and atmos mixing with DAPS. I'm currently on a studio Ultra, and I get crashes with pro tools and eucon several times a day. Yes, I have nearly every plugin ever made installed, but that wasn't an issue on my windows machines.

Last edited by thebeatless; 08-22-2022 at 08:05 PM.
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  #9  
Old 08-22-2022, 06:19 PM
snowplaysmusic snowplaysmusic is offline
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Default Re: How often does your Pro Tools crash on your Mac hardware?

Thank you for your replies. I should've been more clear, how often does Pro Tools crash on your Mac system? I am not looking for any help fixing my crashes: been there, done that. In fact, I've been in denial all this time. This super computer machine was a dream of mine but became 3 years of striking out that never materialized. Continuing to try to fix it is insanity. I am a software engineer and deeply knowledgeable about computers. I did everything to try to fix Pro Tools crashing, and by it learned a tremendous amount about operating systems and low latency audio, but this machine just won't get it done. It's been such a sad 3 years that I considered leaving pro audio for good. It's been devastating to my creative and professional life. I put in too much blood, sweat and tears into this machine, and should've sold it 3 months after it was unreliable, but it took me another 2 and a half years to get out of my sunken ship fallacy.

But hearing that many of you have very stable systems, and some cannot even remember Pro Tools crashing, is very VERY encouraging. It gives me hope that pro audio does not have to be like this anymore. There is no career or creative possibility in these conditions. And like I said, I did everything. The DUC would be amazed to learn how deep I took to fixing the Pro Tools crashing, using a scientific and technological approach. It was remarkable how much I tried to make this machine work. But, the machine can be sold on the market, and then I am going to Mac, because I am so disappointed by this build that I will never, ever build my own PC ever again, and I was only into Windows for the hardware commodity. I'm not saying it's Avid's fault or Windows is to blame, just that this was a devastating few years that I am only now starting to understand.

It makes sense that I wait for the M2, and I can't imagine changing my system for such a short time, so the studio is going to be silent for a while, while I take a hiatus from pro audio until next year (or whenever) an M2 Mac Pro is available. Your answers are to help me gauge if pro audio is even a real thing. I know that sounds funny and ridiculous, but so many years of crashing and tweaking and crashing dims one's outlook considerably. But I appreciate it.

Last edited by snowplaysmusic; 08-22-2022 at 06:33 PM.
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  #10  
Old 08-22-2022, 06:41 PM
snowplaysmusic snowplaysmusic is offline
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Default Re: How often does your Pro Tools crash on your Mac hardware?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
You already are confusing two things. the computer aka Windows crashing or Pro Tools crashing. Which is it? and because you are not clear here who knows what answers from folks will be about? And what exact crashes are you getting? what Windows bluescreen or AAE or ASSERT error or what *exactly* happens?

You should pick Mac or Windows based on the environment you are most comfortable working in. Both can be stable if you set them up correctly and troubleshoot them well when they have problems. And Mac are typically more work to keep up to date with and more hassles due to macOS changes and processor hardware changes, so if you are having troubles managing a Windows setup I would NOT switch to Mac expecting it to be easier for you to manage.

Standard troubleshooting instructions is under "help us help you" up top on each DUC web page. Start there, post a SiSoft Sandra report as expected, is the system *fully* optimized? Describe exactly what is happening and what troubleshooting you have tried.

Have you tried to get help here or from Avid support before? From a very quick look the only post from you that seems relevant is stuff hanging (not crashing?) with a white screen? Like this thread https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=415405. And there I can see what looks like you might be misunderstanding how to troubleshoot for plugin related issues (you need to move the .aaxplugin files out of the plugin folder, just not using a plugin in a session does not mean much, installed plugins can still cause grief and do so frequently, and no mention of trashing prefs, or testing from a new admin user account, so who knows if you did those or not but some glaring obvious basic things at least not being discussed). And a 64 core Threadripper likely places you outside of the standard usage/coverage so maybe you might expect to turn up some problems, but hopefully they only happen under extreme load/thread count. But I'd focus on working through standard troubleshooting there. As much as I love AMD EPYC and Threadripper platforms that's a pretty extreme environment for Pro Tools, I wonder if it's worth the hit in clock rate and thermal throttling etc. vs. more modest core counts. What are you doing with all that? Running huge composition/VI sessions? Are you making use of freeze/commit to tame some CPU load?And you should double check that the DIMMs in that build are on the VQL, I think they are and any difference is just retail packaging/naming, but check... end-user memory tests very often do not find problems and do not mean the memory is known good. At 256GB with Threadripper I'd have gone ECC with memory,... that's a nice cosmic ray detector you have there. I'm curious how you have you handled the "rotated" Threadripper chip and what heatsink/fan/case you used for cooling. Are you monitoring CPU core and DRAM temps? (I'm a fan, pun intended, of the Lenovo P620 in large part because they have very nice packaging and Threadripper and DRAM cooling, even with a power supply that could do with more grunt, not for Pro Tools use for me though).

If you have other past thread that better covers your problem(s) then can you link to it here.
Darryl, I really appreciate it. I know you want to help. I think it's super cool you went through my post history to learn more. I can't even run an idling session at 44khz/32 bit buffer with no plugins and 3 tracks. I get a loading spinner and the UI freezes randomly after 15-60 minutes. I really did it all, removed all unused hardware, upgraded and changed BIOS everywhere from stock to deep tweaks, followed the most hard-core Windows low latency guides, or simply followed Avid's recommendations, read hundreds of DUC posts and ideas, disabled network drivers, onboard network cards, etc. I developed an entire scientific method based on session testing and hard drive imaging. It's been 3 years of me being an operating system specialist instead of a pro audio engineer. I will never know if it was the 64-core, a bad PCIe card, bad motherboard, a bad chip, etc. I dropped down to 128 GB of RAM, changed out all the sticks. It just goes on and on. I put my heart and soul into the machine and hit a technical barrier I could not understand or overcome. I'm tired of dealing with custom water cooled loops and living in a "what if" reality. What if it's X? Y? Z? I don't know, but this destroyed my creative life, and my creative life is my reason for living, so it's been a dark few years of my life.

But I am so glad your machines are running so good, and when I come back to the industry next year, I am excited to actually create music. I'm sure I can get at least $5k for the cosmic ray detector... LOVE that term :) Sorry for making this an emotional personal novel. I appreciate my friends here at the DUC and your support and hope to make this change and keep going.
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