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Old 06-26-2008, 07:58 PM
Sheldon Radford's Avatar
Sheldon Radford Sheldon Radford is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 1,293
Default Snapshot Edit and Propagate modes

Hi everyone,

Here are a few questions that often come up as people start digging into the deeper functionality of snapshots.

How do I use Edit mode, and what's the difference between absolute and relative changes?

Here’s a quick example to help wrap your mind around Edit mode.
1) Save whatever you’re working on to a show file (so you can come back to it later)
2) Clear the console (Options > System > Clear Console)
3) Set fader one to 0 dB. Create new Snapshot 1.
4) Set fader one to -5 dB. Create new Snapshot 2.
5) Set fader one to -10 dB. Create new Snapshot 3.
6) Recall Snapshot 1 (0 dB)

Okay, now the fun begins…
7) Enter Edit mode
8) Move fader one up to +5 dB (a relative change of +5 dB)
9) On the Snapshots page, multi-select all three snapshots
10) Hit the REL button to capture the relative change.
11) Recall snapshots 1, 2 and 3. Fader one should now be at +5 dB, 0 dB, and -5 dB (up 5 dB in each snapshot, relative to the original setting.)

Cool, huh? Now do this, to help understand the difference between Relative and Absolute edit mode:
12) Enter Edit mode again.
13) Set fader one to 0 dB
14) On the Snapshots page, multi-select all three snapshots
15) Hit the ABS button to capture the absolute value.
16) Recall snapshots 1, 2 and 3. Result: Fader 1 is the same value in all snapshots, because the absolute value was stored.

This example uses only faders, but any parameter (aux send, EQ, etc.) can be adjusted using Edit mode.
…and before the band arrives don’t forget to re-load the show file you saved in step 1. Enjoy!

What is the difference between Edit mode and Propagate mode?

On the surface both modes appear to do the same thing: they allow for very localized parameter changes - tweak just the EQ on one channel, for example - to be applied to one or more snapshots in a fast, efficient way. But they're actually quite different...

The way I always describe it is that Propagate mode is great for when you’ve made a change and then realize afterwards that you need to apply that change across a number of snapshots. For example, you finally get the lead vocal EQ dialed in and now need to carry that change through the rest of the snapshots. In this case, it’s easy to enter Propagate mode, scope the vocal channel fader and EQ data type, and apply the change. So Propagate mode is a reactive way of working.

Handy tip: to select all snapshots in the list use CTRL+A on the keyboard, or right-click the list and choose “Select All”

Edit mode is more of a proactive way of working, and has two main benefits compared to Propagate mode:
1) only the controls you change while in Edit mode, and
2) you’re able to make relative changes to parameters stored in snapshots.

Contrast this with Propagate mode, where you can only affect all controls in a section (all EQ controls compared to just the gain on one band, for example, or a single aux send on a channel compared to all Aux Mon or Aux FX).

A great example of when to use Edit mode is this: the drummer says “my mix sounds great, but can you turn the lead singer down by a few dB in every song?” The hard way to do this would be to recall each snapshot individually, adjust the lead singer’s aux send for the drum mix, then re-store the snapshot to capture the change. Then repeat this process for each snapshot. Ugh!

A much better way to do this is to enter Edit mode, make the aux change once, then capture this as a relative change across all snapshots. By applying the relative change you’ve maintained the overall volume curve of the channel in the snapshots (loud in song 1, down a few dB in song 2, etc.), but simply shifted the overall volume curve up or down by some relative amount. Cool!

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Old 07-08-2008, 06:14 PM
Darren 68 Darren 68 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3
Default Re: Venue Tips & Tricks

I am a monitor engineer who mixes a lot of In Ear Monitors. This is what I do with IEM mixes for singers. Most of the time I will have a seccond channel for the singers vocal IEM mix. This way I can change the eq and whatnot without affecting anyone else's mix but the singer. I used to just split the line to another channel but I would always have to do the same thing for the spare vocal. Now I use an aux bus through a plugin to route both the main vocal and spare to another channel. This way no matter what mic the singer is on it will have the same settings (eq. comp, etc.). This is similar to setting up an effect send/return except we are routing it back to a mono channel instead of an FX return. Here is what to do:

1) Choose an aux and name it "IEM Split" (or whatever you want) I will use aux 24 for this discussion.
2) Choose a channel on your console and also name it "IEM Split" (or whatever) I like to put it somewhere near the main and spare vocal.
3) Setup a mono plugin with the input from Aux 24. (digidesign's compressor works fine)
4) Set the output of the plugin to be your "IEM Split" channel
5) Turn "ON" and route your main and spare vocals to Aux 24 at 0db PRE FADER
6) Bypass the plugin (or use it if you like)

Now both you main and spare vocal will show up on a dedicated IEM channel. You can change the EQ, Comps, whatever. This trick will now give your singer consistency whenever they switch to the spare.
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Old 07-15-2008, 02:46 PM
manticore manticore is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 6
Default Re: Venue Tips & Tricks

Another monitor tips when you use wedges and IE for Que that i think is pretty cool is:

Put 2 stereo jacket cabels from FOH out 7 and 8 to FOH in 7 and 8
Patch Monitor L+R to FOH 7 and 8
Patch FOH in 7 and 8 to any 2 inputs you like (FX returns if you have any extra)
Route that channels to L-R and mono, put faders at 0dB
Now you have your que on master fader

The cool part:
Make an event that triggs with master fader below (whatever you like, i use infinity) that mutes Mono output
Make another event that triggs wiht master fader below (same as above) that mutes L+R
Put both in toogle mode.

Now you can change betwen IE and wedge when your master fader goes below the value you have decided

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Old 07-23-2008, 08:04 PM
bmadix bmadix is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 31

Originally Posted by dstagl View Post
How about some tips and tricks from Venue users.

Here's one to start that I grabbed from one of my A1's.

When you're not using every channel for a show, label the unused channels as "-" instead of leaving them to the default "Ch ??". This makes it a lot easier to find things when scanning the scribble strips.

My preference is to label them with "******" as opposed to just blank.

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Old 08-10-2008, 08:07 AM
JoshRose JoshRose is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 57

Originally Posted by mixFarm View Post
big trick to make a TURE post fader delay send on the fader next to the channel you need!!! you know having a main vocal and you want to ride the aux send from a channel fader. no problem with venue:

1. go to plugins and open TRIM on a free slot
2. the input of that plug is the direct out of your channel, lets say main vocal.
3. pickoff must be POST FADER. be shure you set this up in the options
4. the output of that TRIM plug goes to the channel input of the fader next to the main vocal
5. switch the dealy send off on the Main Vocal Channel
6. switch the Delay send on and on 0dB on the new channel

have fun riding your delay like nobody else can do!!!

(this re-routing can be as well used to get group/matrix/PQ outputs back to channel inputs without leaving the console)
This is a nice tip. Thanks for posting it. I tried this today, along with another idea that is really similar, but works a little better for me.

I patch my lead vocal input into 2 channels. One that is just a typical input for the lead vocal, and the second one is what I ride for the lead vocal delay. The lead vocal channel sends to LR, but the delay channel does not. And the delay channel has a 0db send to my delay aux, post fader. So I can just ride that fader up and down to control the delay send for that vocal. It's very similar to what you are saying, but it's a lot more hands on, rather than a very responsive post-fader delay. But I adjust my delay sends constantly, so I like this method. It's a lot easier than pulling up my FX returns or selecting the channel and adjusting the aux send (especially on the profile).

I'm gonna do this for other items I send to my delays.
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:58 PM
bmadix bmadix is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 31

One other along this line, if you've got a VCA you can assign the delay send to it. You can also change VCA assignments per snapshot, if you only need this here and there.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:48 PM
sully1time sully1time is offline
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19
Default Re: Venue Tips & Tricks

Use Events to mute your media feed after 30 seconds for the first 2 songs

I typically use PQs for a press feed, they only get the first 30 seconds of the first 2 songs. Not particularly a good time in the set for me to be thinking about if its time to mute the press feed.

Save the first 2 snapshots with your Press feed un-muted, then create event's that use the those 2 snapshots to mute the Press feed after waiting 30 seconds or whatever length you want.

I always re-call safe my outputs so i create 2 events for each of the first 2 snapshots. The first event un-mutes the Press PQ immediately when each snapshot is re-called, the 2nd event waits 30 seconds, then mute's the Press PQ. TV camera guys look over at me going about my business wondering how i shut the press feed off at exactly 30 seconds! :)
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Old 05-16-2009, 09:08 AM
Sheldon Radford's Avatar
Sheldon Radford Sheldon Radford is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 1,293
Default Re: Venue Tips & Tricks

So, if/when I adjust the gain on any one of those channels they all adjust. Sheldon? Anyone? Is that the way it's supposed to work?
Yes, this is expected behavior, because the inputs have one thing in common: they share the same analog mic preamp. Any change will affect all channels being fed by the preamp.

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Old 03-11-2010, 10:57 AM
rdobra rdobra is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London UK
Posts: 44
Default Re: Venue Tips & Tricks

I'm sure a lot of the guys around know it already but for all the others :

Event to toogle between input safe modes:

Automation safe, Solo safe and Bank safe are all available at any time but only one of the three can be present when you press the safe switch.On Option>Interaction>Input Safe Switches you can choose one.But that's it.
Now, if you create a simple event you can quickly toogle between the three ( if not sure which one is engaged you'll have to learn the flashing light code ).
Go on Events and create one to trigger Input Switch Mode by pressing anything at your choice - I always keep a function switch for this. Very important to have under fire and using snapshots. On Profile you got 8 of them.

Another good one for rehearsals-soundcheck-linecheck for those on Profile -
You can create a simple event( Options>Events page again ) on one or two switches to target quickly the Next or Previous channel.
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:14 PM
jhigbee@tropicana.net jhigbee@tropicana.net is offline
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Galloway, NJ
Posts: 6
Default Safe Modes & Stereoizing

You don't have to choose between automation safe and other safe modes.
All the functionality of recall safe is on the recall safe tab of snapshots. You can be in, say, bank safe and still set up all your automation safeing on that tab.

Also, when "making stereo", I grab the 1st channel where I want it to be, then go get the last channel on the console as its mate. That way, you don't have the extra step of blank channel deletion.
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