Place your bets..

[sorcerer27]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

Well, yes that's what they will say! But really body language and what people don't say speak volumes. And it's easy to tell when someone is being creative with the truth by watching the eyes. Using basic mentalist techniques will tell you just about everything you need to know.

Then there's the old trick of winning them over and getting them to let down their guard to get to the truth, much harder yes, but doable.

Number #3 - get them drunk, always a winner.

[adamqlw]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

Not a fan of Cliff Chase's behaviour at all so I will not be giving him any monetary reward for it - period.

End of line.

A valid perspective. Have not been impressed with his comments on the Kemper.

Reminds me a bit of a small japanese restaurant though... excellent food, nasty chef, always full, and many who have tried it overlook the chef's abrasiveness because the food is so darn good. And will always be polarizing.

[PatriotsBiker]

Anyone notice the booth number at the NAMM show? Could that be dumb luck or is that a sign of things to come. I know there's an extra 00 at the end. Still makes you wonder, though.

As far as 11R, they list it as something being shown with "PT10" at one of the stations. that doesn't mean a darn thing as far as potential upgrades go, but it does say they are still interested in the product enough to give it some focus there.

For my final observation, I'll repeat what some others have pointed out here and in other threads. Folks seemed to be getting AAX ready by the end of the year. A few companies doing far bigger than normal discounts on non-AAX plugs. The price drop on the 11R bundle might be something of interest, too. If something is in the air and the upgrade price is $300, then perhaps this is them listening to yooze guys at the PT-10 release and in this very thread complain about the big upgrade prices. This could be a bigger grandfather grace period thing. Last time it was less than a month before release. Maybe the timing works out so that it's 3 months?

I dunno folks. Just some food for thought. I'm also curious about Native Instruments and all their new VI's that could mean another Komplete and/or Ultimate package on the brew. I'm saving my dimes and nickels and $100 bills as I speak.

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by PatriotsBiker

I'm saving my dimes and nickels and $100 bills as I speak.

It generally never stops - always something else to need

[Ciscokid]

Originally Posted by adamqlw

A valid perspective. Have not been impressed with his comments on the Kemper.

Reminds me a bit of a small japanese restaurant though... excellent food, nasty chef, always full, and many who have tried it overlook the chef's abrasiveness because the food is so darn good. And will always be polarizing.

I had the cash and was on the list for the AXEII but just couldn't do it. All because of how Cliff was at the launch it would have left a bad taste in my mouth giving that guy any of my money.

So I went for the 11 and a AV 52 Ri telecaster instead. Happy days!

[Benoni]

Originally Posted by Ciscokid

I had the cash and was on the list for the AXEII but just couldn't do it. All because of how Cliff was at the launch it would have left a bad taste in my mouth giving that guy any of my money.

So I went for the 11 and a AV 52 Ri telecaster instead. Happy days!

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

Not a fan of Cliff Chase's behaviour at all so I will not be giving him any monetary reward for it - period.

End of line.

I don't follow the AxeFX forums, what exactly has this fellow done that is so distasteful? I know he usually bad mouths his competitors, but everyone always thinks their product is better than a competitors - has he done stuff beyond general trash talking?

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by Ciscokid

I had the cash and was on the list for the AXEII but just couldn't do it. All because of how Cliff was at the launch it would have left a bad taste in my mouth giving that guy any of my money.

Yep, same here was on the list for about 4 months, but, after the dust settled I realised that the machine however great it was for, well FX wise, I couldn't hand over the cash.

And duly spent most of the money getting other gear. Microphones, stands, FRFR speakers, studio monitors, MIDI gear, plugins, new guitar, all stuff that made me feel like a more all-rounded pretend musician instead of a pretend guitarist .

Benoni, there have been a number of comments that Cliff has made over that period when I was looking at the Axe FXII that pretty much shocked me, some comments were taken down by the moderators because they were pretty much inflammatory to people who use or wanted to buy FAS products The first thing you learn in customer service is the customer is always right - even when they are wrong .

[derker]

I dont know him personally but I don't think Cliff is a bad dude at all. You have to consider all the flack and misinformation out there that marinates and becomes factual to many researchers and prospective buyers. Everybody has a breaking point. With the multiple forum talk, and (probably) hundreds of e-mails a day, I can see how a man could be stressed. Sometimes he posts some tongue-in-cheek stuff. I don't think it's to be taken too seriously. I've seen some of the people in this thread post more vindictive/uninformative/straight-up wrong messages. It's the internet, guys, not a 100% accurate reflection of real life.

I find most of his posts to be quite informative; he even did a study of aliasing in amp modelers and readily shared the information that his unit has (had?) more aliasing artifacts than 11r! I've seen Cliff post positive things about 11r multiple times.

If you don't want to buy a Fractal product, that's cool. Most of us don't have the money to - I know I don't. You're allowed to have your reasons, but at the end of the day, the Axe II is the closest to a "no-compromise" product; no expense spared on parts and labor, assembled in the USA, very high work ethic and offering of consistent free updates which only improve the product. And it sounds damn good, IMO.

I still love my 11r, and - back to the subject - I hope no proverbial bets need to be placed. I hope Avid does the right thing in this situation and complete the product we all paid for. Fix the bugs. Fix the drivers. *Give* us some of the ideascale stuff we've been screaming about for years, and 11r's culture *will* change significantly.

Karl: I don't know what happen between you and Cliff so I can't make a comment...but were you not a mod at the Line6 forum for a little while? When I had my HD500 and using the Line6 forum I saw your name pretty often. Not pointing fingers or placing blame here, but you could see how Cliff *may* see you as a L6 advocate? ...and now that you've moved on, doesn't it feel better? :)

[derker]

Originally Posted by Karl Houseknecht

Nope. I am a beta tester of their gear and was appointed as an "expert" user on their forum, which means I answer questions there sometimes. I am not a mod on the forum, nor am I employed by them in any way.

*snip*

But that's no excuse for how I was treated. I paid my $2000 and my opinion was as valid as anyone else's. You don't treat a customer like that, EVER.

I'm not making any excuses. No one needs to be mistreated, or told off, etc...especially when you're a customer. But every story has two sides, maybe Cliff perceived things differently? No defending here, just posing an outside perspective. Not that any of this really matters...

...but if Cliff were to hand you an Axe II as a means of burying the hatchet, I doubt you'd bat an eyelash.

[adamqlw]

Originally Posted by derker

I find most of his posts to be quite informative; he even did a study of aliasing in amp modelers and readily shared the information that his unit has (had?) more aliasing artifacts than 11r! I've seen Cliff post positive things about 11r multiple times.

If anyone else is curious, I tracked down the aliasing post