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  #11  
Old 11-30-2022, 09:20 PM
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JFreak JFreak is offline
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Default Re: Insert (plugins) order and Undo?

I think the paradigm shift in thinking is "reordering" plugins, not "moving". Problem is, PT GUI obeys this law: "if it is not possible on a control surface, then forget it"... which means simple reordering cannot be done. Futile to ask for a new feature also.
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2022, 06:17 AM
noah330 noah330 is online now
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Default Re: Insert (plugins) order and Undo?

Maybe a ctrl-^ or something to move a plug up down.
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2022, 12:06 PM
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nednednerb nednednerb is offline
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Default Re: Insert (plugins) order and Undo?

If it's not possible on a digital control surface, don't tell dinosaur thinkers you could hire a programmer with youthful energy who would just do it be damned.

Haha. However, because of the way PT works, reordering as spoken some plugins just wouldn't work super easily. So instead of "allowing some" moves and showing "grey X" or whatever on other moves.... it's already complex in those ways to avoid some of those moves, especially as hardware inserts are at play for many, etc.

The "undo" features in general could be a bit more user friendly. Until stumbling onto "hey, how do I undo this" and finding out "oh......" it is more than a little opaque why some moves seem reversible and others do not.

Such as, edit Melodyne on a clip, move some notes around. Hit "undo" and the moved notes don't undo, but instantiating Melodyne gets undone. When I hear back from Avid Support, I'll know if they consider that a "bug" in this case or it's just a "feature request'.
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  #14  
Old 12-02-2022, 01:33 AM
PortWill PortWill is offline
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Default Re: Insert (plugins) order and Undo?

Digital control surfaces work with other DAWs (and standalone) that allow dynamic reordering (including HW inserts) but I suspect you were sarcastic there. Now I understand the general concept behind it, but it is just clunky to play tetris with the plugins

How it could work EASILY: drag & drop OVER another plugin replaces it, drag & drop in between plugin slots rearranges them. Simple as pie. This is what I was expecting after using Logic, Ableton, Reaper and Studio One for 15 years.

Now I took all your suggestions and it is so much easier. I use the second bank of inserts for saturation and the first bank for channel stip duties, leaving A empty. This makes a lot of sense combining the idea of using one slot for one task, like B = EQ, C = COMP, etc. I also really like the way I can quickly open plugins one by one just by clicking on them and then shift + click pins it. Easy and makes sense. I also like that I can Shift+A to enable/disable all plugins but it's a pity it doesn't do it for banks separately.

About the UNDO, there is no way anyone from Avid can explain that to me :)
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  #15  
Old 12-02-2022, 01:45 AM
PortWill PortWill is offline
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Default Re: Insert (plugins) order and Undo?

I just wanted to highlight one more point: you can A/B hardware inserts before and after each other in the analog world too (with a push of a button). When it comes to mastering it is important to be able to do that relatively easy. I would argue it is important to do it in mixing too. I doubt that my "way of thinking" is horribly wrong

Last edited by PortWill; 12-02-2022 at 01:56 AM.
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  #16  
Old 12-02-2022, 05:43 AM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: Insert (plugins) order and Undo?

Everything should be Undo-able. The only reason for the limitations is that they weren't feasible in 1995 so the behavior stuck. Probably originated with loading and unloading the DSP but that's conjecture.

Same reason deleting a track and changing routing are not Undo-able. Needs to change.
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  #17  
Old 12-02-2022, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: Insert (plugins) order and Undo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PortWill View Post
I just wanted to highlight one more point: you can A/B hardware inserts before and after each other in the analog world too (with a push of a button). When it comes to mastering it is important to be able to do that relatively easy. I would argue it is important to do it in mixing too. I doubt that my "way of thinking" is horribly wrong
The thing is it is not matter of wrong or right . It is often just a different work flow with a different approach to do more or less the same thing.


Keeping in mind PT was originally designed by computer programers that had experience in the analog large format console and tape world before digital consoles became popular. And IMO to this day as far as audio goes PT is still one of most powerful DAWs available (once you become accustom to it's work flow particulars)
Make no mistake I am not saying PY is the be all to end all DAW there are no doubt some tasks and work flows that are better implemented and more efficient in other DAWs

Now I am no programer and do not know what would, or would not, be possible to easily implement or not in PT coding . But I think simply assuming that what is possible on a digital console or in other DAWs should be an easy programing fix in PT may not be completely accurate ?

Myself having started DAW recording in 2002 with Pro Tools and used it ever since as my primary DAW when I use other DAWs , or have tried other DAWs (specifically) Studio One and Reason which I own and have tried Reaper I often find some audio recording tasks and routing and editing to be clunky at times, compared to PT

For just one example the panning (especially panning stereo tracks) in Studio One is archaic and clumsy compared to PT's dual numbered panning knobs

Also it is entirely possible to quickly and easily change the order of Hardware inserts by a simple dragging and dropping up or down, in an insert bank (if as noted,, you have at least one or more blank insert slots)
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Last edited by K Roche; 12-02-2022 at 07:26 AM.
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2022, 06:09 PM
mattrixx mattrixx is online now
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Default Re: Insert (plugins) order and Undo?

Logic handles this very well. Both insert arranging and undo.
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  #19  
Old 12-05-2022, 06:40 AM
PortWill PortWill is offline
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Default Re: Insert (plugins) order and Undo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by K Roche View Post
The thing is it is not matter of wrong or right . It is often just a different work flow with a different approach to do more or less the same thing.


Keeping in mind PT was originally designed by computer programers that had experience in the analog large format console and tape world before digital consoles became popular. And IMO to this day as far as audio goes PT is still one of most powerful DAWs available (once you become accustom to it's work flow particulars)
Make no mistake I am not saying PY is the be all to end all DAW there are no doubt some tasks and work flows that are better implemented and more efficient in other DAWs

Now I am no programer and do not know what would, or would not, be possible to easily implement or not in PT coding . But I think simply assuming that what is possible on a digital console or in other DAWs should be an easy programing fix in PT may not be completely accurate ?

Myself having started DAW recording in 2002 with Pro Tools and used it ever since as my primary DAW when I use other DAWs , or have tried other DAWs (specifically) Studio One and Reason which I own and have tried Reaper I often find some audio recording tasks and routing and editing to be clunky at times, compared to PT

For just one example the panning (especially panning stereo tracks) in Studio One is archaic and clumsy compared to PT's dual numbered panning knobs

Also it is entirely possible to quickly and easily change the order of Hardware inserts by a simple dragging and dropping up or down, in an insert bank (if as noted,, you have at least one or more blank insert slots)
I really don't want to kick this horse to death and I agree with what you are saying. I also feel like there are certain developments that would make so much sense to budget for if I was Avid Pro Tools is fantastic, I have started using it about 2 weeks ago and I already purchased a yearly subscription. I did not have very high expectations but it really opened my eyes to possibilities I wasn't even aware of, it is clear how they put so much effort into making sure that the DAW is stable and fast even when working with TONS of tracks. One thing that surprised me off the bat is the logic behind key commands, it makes so much sense. I did use Reaper too but it's really clunky as you mentioned. HOWEVER, it is a free software with a $60 perpetual licence and functionality-wise it brings most tool to the table, which is quite something.

I have been using Ableton exclusively for music production and arranging in the last 10 years (was using Logic before that) but I desparately needed a tool for mixing/mastering and after suffering with Studio One for some time I decided to give Pro Tools a go and I am happy I did. Studio One is a pain in the back when it comes to stability, it drains the CPU and it won't work properly with the Prism driver. As for Ableton, it is highly superior to most anything when it comes to being creative, laying down ideas and arrangements (because of the workflow) but it's HORRIBLE for mixing (also because of the workflow). So I agree, each DAW has its strengths and weaknesses.

I learn more and more every day in PT and I lean a lot on this forum too.
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  #20  
Old 12-21-2022, 10:42 PM
englandthii englandthii is offline
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Default Re: Insert (plugins) order and Undo?

Thank you for the detailed answer. I think the best solution will be to have another track as you mentioned and drag plugins for A/B-ing.

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Last edited by englandthii; 01-16-2023 at 07:05 AM.
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