Midi Editing Window PLEASE!!

[jackruston]

Having recently got frustrated with logic doing funny things with my audio, I decided to use PT instead. I had not originally done so when I got my TDM system because I found the midi so much harder to work with. It would be really great to have an edit window displaying regions, which can then, with a mouse click, open up into a matrix style editing window displaying notes. You could select all for example without selecting everything in the edit window...etc etc. I'm sure I'm not the first person to bemoan this problem. The audio in PT is so much better as is the mix window, dealing with plug-ins etc. In a way its good that the midi functions aren't as advanced because it encourages you to perform better when actually playing the stuff in. BUT we need a dedicated editing window ..Please give us one! Any tips would be much appreciated THANKS
jack

[Zeus]

Since you already got Logic(?), do your midi stuff there and sync it and Pro Tools together.

Personally, I don't want Pro Tools to have the same kind of window hell what Logic has! Windows after windows...(And please, no-one tell me about about any "screenset"-stuff...If there was any "logic" in Logic, nothing like that would be needed!)

Of course Logic excels on the midi side...For example, when you manually put notes into sequences, they are automatically cut a few ticks short, so as to avoid problems with overlapping. This does not happen with Pro Tools! What a pain to use the Change Duration operation for every hand generated sequence...

Z

[jackruston]

Hey Zeus
Thanks for replying. I agree that logic can be far from logical! However at the moment I'm setting up markers in protools to change track heights etc for midi editing. In effect, a screenset type setup. Wouldnt it just be simpler to click on a region to open it up?
I did try linking logic and protools. It was a pain. Looping for example didnt work, and various aspects of the system were "loose". Perhaps theres a problem but I followed all instructions from both companies tech support sites. It worked as described, but It was inconsistant and problematic. I have bags of ram so I dont think it was a memory issue. Anyway, I basically prefer protools, I just wish it had certain features of logic. Lifes a bitch!
Jack

[Zeus]

Yeah, I've also tried syncing Logic and PT, and it quite didn't work. (The issue about looping, but also Logic playing in wrong tempo, etc...)

So now I pretty much just tolerate the basicness of Pro Tools' MIDI...

Life, indeed, is a bitch! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Z

[dkrausz]

Just change the midi track to notes view and drop a curser line anywhere in the track. Hit command + A and now all of only that one midi track is selected for the length of the session.

dk

[dcornutt]

I think the gist of things form the midi forum early on..was that Digi doens't intend to ever add a seperate window for midi.

So..this is something your going to have to deal with if you want to use PT for midi.

Have you tried the "zoom" toggle key?
This at least..toggles the window to jumbo size..and back.

Heres what I do. Do your tedious midi editing and composing in logic..where you have the tools and space to do it. No need to sync logic and TDM. Just work in logic..then export your session as a midi file. Import this into PT. It works great.

For example..PT's midi tempo map editing is really..really lame. To get a smooth decrescendo..you'd have to use 4 or 5 tempo change inserts..at varying tempos. Really cludgy.

IF..however, you use the wonderful tools in logic..or DP..or whatever..and do this..when you import the midi file into PT..all your tracks come in..in individual tracks..and PT..interperts the tempo map..using it's own archaic tempo changes. In other words..where you had a decrescendo in logic..in PT..it would show up as lots of tempo changes. But..it works! It will sound exactly the same.

From here..just use PT as "clean up"...to tweak a few things here and there..and dump it to audio.

You can import the midi file..thru the import command in PT..or..even..just drag the file into an open PT session window!

It comes in as seperate tracks..just as you had it inlogic. The only thing you'd probably have to do..is reassign your patches to the track.

One thing here..PT does NOT move the tempo changes when you move regions. It doesn't cut or paste them either with the region. If you slide everything 5 bars..your tempo change will happen 5 bars earlier or later. Just something to be aware of

It does this whether using external midi file or not...ie..it's just the way PT handles such things.

Doing things this way..you dont' have to worry about syncing the 2..you can take full advantage of logics midi prowess..and save it out to a midi file. You then have an option to go back..and tweak the original Logic file..for BIG changes..and reimport..or..clean up and small tweaks in PT..which its good for.

I think it's the best of both worlds..and offers fewer compatibility issues with both programs.

Give it a shot.

dcornutt

[jackruston]

Thats a really good idea. I ended up working that way on the session I'm doing at the moment because I switched to PT half way through. It works no problem and is a realistic way to do things. Lots of people often start with midi guide tracks and pads anyway. Also once you have everything in PT you dont need to worry about the logic song anymore. you can always reimport the midi to logic from PT like you say. If you use both at once you need a logic song in addition for every session, and every backup...do-able but a pain and twice the chance of a screw up of some sort. Put it this way, as far as I can see, if you link logic and pro tools you need an extra iac bus for sods law...(murphys law for you cousins) [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Thanks for the useful key command stuff everyone
jack

[Jan Folkson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by jackruston:
It would be really great to have an edit window displaying regions, which can then, with a mouse click, open up into a matrix style editing window displaying notes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PT already has feature similar to this. If you look at your midi data in "Regions" view it's basically like looking at Logic's "arrange" page. If you highlight a region you can then hit option+'-' (the minus key next to the = key, not the one on the numeric keypad) to toggle back and forth between notes view and regions view. It's not exactly like the matrix view in Logic but it does have some advantages. You can view your midi info and sample accurate audio info on the same screen at the same time, something Logic never had.

HTH.

- Jan

[ July 13, 2001: Message edited by: Jan Folkson ]

[jackruston]

I think its just a question of importing anything really elaborate from logic and just getting used to pt. They are actually really different in certain ways, but after only a couple of days it's getting much easier. Still, it'd be cool to have a single key command to switch to notes and, say jumbo track height, and back again.

[dcornutt]

I forgot to mention one other thing...
I also, after finishing in PT..export the midi file from PT..and import into Logic..and use the excellent scoring tools in Logic to print out parts. If it's something a alittle more demanding ..I import the exported PT midi file into Finale..or Sibelus for more clean up on the part..without altering the original midi file.

In otherwords..there are also advantages going the other way as well...ie..PT exported midi..into another app for scoring ..etc.

If you have done all your tweaking in Logic on your midi..and simply imported in PT and dumped to audio..then..you could simply use the logic file..as your resource for scoring.

I invaribly do some final tweaking in PT..and need the updated file.

If you do scoring..sometimes..the "performance" midi file..with overlapped notes..etc..doesn't correspond well or translate well to a scored part. So, it's good to have a "copy" of the file to work with that you can tweak to make the part come out as it should be written. Some scoring apps have tools to help with this..for instance..translating tied triplets (swing feel) to straight eighths for part writting.

dcornutt