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  #1  
Old 09-04-2023, 05:44 PM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
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Default Mac Studio: Automatically shutting off video monitors causes Protools 2023.6 to crash

I'm Running Ventura 2023.6 (not 2026.6) It's a typo...I'm not a time traveler.

Let me provide some background:

I have been running flawlessly with an Apple Mac Studio - M1Max with 64GB Ram and 2TB SSD. I am running Protools Studio 2023.6 on Ventura 13.5.1.

It started when I added a Universal Audio Twin|x Duo interface and a Universal Audio Satellite OCTO on the 4th Thunderbolt4 port (Daisy-chained as recommended by Universal Audio). I have three monitors connected to the other three Thunderboilt4 ports.

I started having Protools crashes when the Mac goes to sleep (or reawaken).

Here's the thing. The Universal Audio interface and the satellite are working perfectly and do not crash during this process, only Protools.

I first suspected plugins, so removed every plugin out of the plugin's folder. Rebooted. Ran the utility to delete preferences. Rebooted. Restarted Protools. I still had crashes.

Okay. I changed the Apple setting to not go to sleep after turning off the monitors. Still crashes. Therefore it appears to crash when the Mac turns off the monitors after a set period of inactivity (not going to sleep however). I have the screen saver kick in at 10 minutes of inactivity and turn off monitors at 20 minutes of inactivity.

I set it to never turn off the monitors and it does not crash. I could leave it like that but it would shorten the lives of my three monitors being on all the time.

So, after that long description, does anyone else have this problem (with or without Universal Audio hardware attached). Does anyone have a suggestion or solution?

I will try to get a Sandra report posted (Do you want the whole thing or a specific section?).

I also have the crash report (Do you want the whole thing or a specific section?).
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Obsidian Dragon
MacbookPro14,3 - Intel Core i7 3.1 GHz, 16 GB
MacOS 13.6.4 running Protools 2024.3

Mac Studio M1Max - 64GB
MacOS 14.3.1 running Protools 2024.3

Last edited by JFreak; 09-05-2023 at 01:01 AM. Reason: fixed the thread title for you
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  #2  
Old 09-04-2023, 05:48 PM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
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Default Re: Mac Studio: Automatically shutting off video monitors causes Protools 2026.6 to c

Oops. SisSoft's Sandra Report is only for Windows. Is there an equivalent system reporting utility for Mac Apple Silicon/Ventura?
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MacbookPro14,3 - Intel Core i7 3.1 GHz, 16 GB
MacOS 13.6.4 running Protools 2024.3

Mac Studio M1Max - 64GB
MacOS 14.3.1 running Protools 2024.3
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  #3  
Old 09-04-2023, 06:11 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Mac Studio: Automatically shutting off video monitors causes Protools 2026.6 to c

I have seen issues with the thunderbolt ports on the Apple ARM computers when you start to use a lot of them (or in chain.) I think this is an issue only Apple can solve.

(I had to pick one thunderbolt item to not use to prevent crashes so I turn on my archive TB storage unit only when needed. No more crashes after that.)

As you have 3 screens, try moving one to the HDMI port.
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  #4  
Old 09-04-2023, 06:48 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Mac Studio: Automatically shutting off video monitors causes Protools 2026.6 to c

System Report is built into macOS and the equivalent to Sandra. But a full report is huge and not likely to help you here.

I suspect this is more a subtle interaction between Pro Tools and your interface and/or satellite with Thunderbolt power/power management.

Does it happen for the interface or satellite by itself with all the monitors?

Does Pro Tools crash if a session is not open?

I would try one monitor on the first Thunderbolt port and just the interface on other ports. Try at least two of the unused ports. Each port on these Macs is a separate Thunderbolt bus but there are occasional concerns out there about how power is handled across the ports, at least for power hungry monitors.

I expect contacting UAD support is a good idea.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 09-04-2023 at 07:00 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-04-2023, 11:58 PM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
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Default Re: Mac Studio: Automatically shutting off video monitors causes Protools 2026.6 to c

So, I tried disconnecting two of the monitors and testing. Protools still crashed when the mac went to sleep. (oops! I meant to say automatically turn off the monitors)

So here is my theory. Protools need to have constant connection to the interface that is listed as the playback engine. When the mac turns off the monitors after a period of inactivity, the Thunderbolt ports must turn off momentarily or have a voltage drop. This also disconnects the Universal Audio hardware. Universal Audio's Console software is able to reconnect after such a disconnection without a problem, however Protools can not reconnect to the Universal Audio playback engine and therefore crashes.

My work around solution:
I will configure my mac to simply have a screen saver (after 10 minutes of inactivity) and set turn off monitors to "never." I also set the displays settings on the Mac to prevent automatic sleeping when the display is off. I will use a power switch to physically turn the power to the three monitors on or off as needed to extend their life. It's not elegant, but it'll work.
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MacbookPro14,3 - Intel Core i7 3.1 GHz, 16 GB
MacOS 13.6.4 running Protools 2024.3

Mac Studio M1Max - 64GB
MacOS 14.3.1 running Protools 2024.3

Last edited by Obsidian Dragon; 09-05-2023 at 01:26 AM.
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  #6  
Old 09-05-2023, 12:57 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Mac Studio: Automatically shutting off video monitors causes Protools 2026.6 to c

Sorry. Didn't notice you were sleeping your system.
Pro Tools does not like sleep. It's in Avid's KBs too.
And I'd guess your hypothesis is possibly the issue (audio interface waking up order) but there's also the iLok which could wake up after the PT app already started to check for it.

(I thought you were just shutting off your monitors -- which is what I do every day)
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  #7  
Old 09-05-2023, 01:24 AM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
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Default Re: Mac Studio: Automatically shutting off video monitors causes Protools 2026.6 to c

Quote:
Originally Posted by BScout View Post
Sorry. Didn't notice you were sleeping your system.
Pro Tools does not like sleep. It's in Avid's KBs too.
And I'd guess your hypothesis is possibly the issue (audio interface waking up order) but there's also the iLok which could wake up after the PT app already started to check for it.

(I thought you were just shutting off your monitors -- which is what I do every day)
Sorry. I misspoke there. I meant that it still crashed when the mac automatically turned off the monitors after some period of inactivity (not sleep). I am aware that Protools does not like it when the system goes to sleep.

As for the ilok, the front facing USB-3 ports on the Mac Studio M1Max do not seem to get disconnected when the monitors are automatically turned off.
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Obsidian Dragon
MacbookPro14,3 - Intel Core i7 3.1 GHz, 16 GB
MacOS 13.6.4 running Protools 2024.3

Mac Studio M1Max - 64GB
MacOS 14.3.1 running Protools 2024.3
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  #8  
Old 09-05-2023, 02:48 AM
dominicperry dominicperry is offline
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Default Re: Mac Studio: Automatically shutting off video monitors causes Protools 2023.6 to c

I have a problem with this on my MBP. If my big external 49" monitor goes to sleep, with the Mac still running, when I wake the monitor from sleep I get a temporary glitch - enough to kill PT if it's running on the machine. I can see the little "shutdown" in iStat menus. It's because the MacBook Pro in clamshell mode switches off when it thinks there's no monitor connected and somewhere in the wake-up process, MacOS thinks there's no monitor connected. It doesn't happen with any of the other monitors I have, but the 49" one takes so long to wake up (about 6 seconds) that MacOS gets it all wrong and PT can't cope. So, this isn't the situation you have (the Mac Studio will run without any monitor connected) but just a demonstration of how hokey the power management of MacOS is. I doubt you will fix it - instead you will need a workaround of some kind - screen savers or switching off one or two of the montors manually perhaps.

Dominic
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  #9  
Old 09-05-2023, 10:14 AM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
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Default Re: Mac Studio: Automatically shutting off video monitors causes Protools 2023.6 to c

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominicperry View Post
I doubt you will fix it - instead you will need a workaround of some kind - screen savers or switching off one or two of the montors manually perhaps.

Dominic
That is what I'm leaning to do. We'll see how Protools responds if the Mac Studio never shuts off the monitors automatically (nor sleep), but the monitors are powered off physically (not disconnected).
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MacbookPro14,3 - Intel Core i7 3.1 GHz, 16 GB
MacOS 13.6.4 running Protools 2024.3

Mac Studio M1Max - 64GB
MacOS 14.3.1 running Protools 2024.3
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  #10  
Old 09-14-2023, 05:51 PM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
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Default Re: Mac Studio: Automatically shutting off video monitors causes Protools 2023.6 to c

I'm just following up on this thread in case someone is interested in this solution. I plugged all three monitors into a separate power conditioner with separate switches for each outlet. I can now turn the monitors on of off via the switches.

The Mac Studio M1Max generally behaves when the monitors are powered back on, but on a couple occasions some plugin windows are placed elsewhere or on another monitor. They still work, and I just have to drag them to my preferred positions.

The computer is set to go to screen saver and never power off the monitors and never goes to sleep. My UAD Apollo Twin X and UAD Satellite Octo stay on all the time (They do get pretty warm to hot). If I am not going to use the system for a longer time, I could do a full shut down and power off the UAD hardware to save electricity and reduce heat generation.

Thanks to those that chimed in and offered suggestions. In the end, Apple does not quite get the power off the monitors procedure quite right on their thunderbolt ports, so this work-around is necessary.

I want to give a shout out to Universal Audio. I am finding their plugins (both DSP and Native) to be excellent. I do realize that UAD's reliance on the aging SHARC processors for DSP may be due for a refresh in the near future, but in the mean time, I'm getting some good use out of them with minimal impact to my computer's CPU. The greatest advantage is to be an able to track and/or monitor with their DSP plugins with near zero latency using their Console software. I am having so much fun building incredible vocal chains that previously were impossible to use due to latency. This has redefined my workflow.
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Obsidian Dragon
MacbookPro14,3 - Intel Core i7 3.1 GHz, 16 GB
MacOS 13.6.4 running Protools 2024.3

Mac Studio M1Max - 64GB
MacOS 14.3.1 running Protools 2024.3
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