In Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback

[mike connelly]

Originally Posted by cshaw

That's easy. CPTK users paid about $2k for their HD features (expanded track count/OMF/Advanced Automation/timecode support, etc) back when they were on PT 7&8. They got shafted when PT9 was released and everyone got the features they paid for - for 1/10th of the price. In the long run they've pre-paid for their upgrade to PT10HD.

PT9 did bring some of the features but not all. Surround and the advanced video tracks both still require CPTK, and those are really the only features that make me want to use PT over other apps. $2k seems insane to add surround sound but I suppose that's what happens when a company has their business model based around selling hardware and doing whatever it takes to try and protect those sales.

Originally Posted by pfo

Even so, the point is moot, as no PTHD 10 user could simply "upgrade" to PTHD 11 without buying an HDX card, which will come bundled with a copy of PTHD 11 anyway.

What about users who previously had the hardware but dump the digi hardware for something else? HD users can basically become PT+CPTK users without spending the $2700. But I guess digi isn't happy about that and that's why the upgrade is $1000 to try and make up for those who stop upgrading digi hardware. Honestly, once digi released a hardware independent version of the software, it's hard to imagine why more than a tiny fraction of users would want to stick with the hardware.

[TheNoize]

Pro Tools 9 had barely any new features, besides being native - but EVERYONE WENT CRAZY to jump on the native bandwagon.

Everyone was waiting for a 9.1 update with tons of new stuff. Apparently 9.1 is called 10 now, and you have to pay for it.

Avid, you deserve what's coming to you!!! I hope your stock value shrivels up and dies. You have made fools of all your customers, and you laid off people while still bragging about it in interviews. We've been putting up with a product that is way behind other DAWs in the market, for the sake of product loyalty and industry standard compatibility. And the way you repay us is by charging more money for a cs release? What did you think was going to happen when you went native??? Now you miss making easy money, don't you? Now you have to compete with regular audio and DAW companies. Good luck with that, incompetent idiots (or incompetent, idiot CEO and product managers)!

What you're doing is extorsion, and I want no part in this anymore. I've switched to Reaper all the way now, and I want my money back for the 9.0 update.

The only way to solve this is offering a FREE update to everyone who purchased 9. That's where most of your smugness lies.
I don't care how much you charge for anything else. People with 9 should have free access to this - it's plain and simple. 9 isn't worth the update price - at least not yet. Maybe it will be, if 10 is free for us.

Give me a free update from 9 to 10 within one week, and I'll stick with using Pro Tools.
Fail to do so, and I will return 9, and tell everyone I know in the industry about my decision to leave Pro Tools, so I don't get sent any more pro tools session files, just stems. I'm done with this sh*t.

[Rubicon]

I emailed my dealer for this, and he just sent me an invoice for $1000 for the normal upgrade...

If Avid dealers don't know about this, it creates a very embarrassing situation for the customer...

+1 for epic fail.

Rubicon

[bad jitter]

Originally Posted by Duardo

in terms of power, a single-card HDX system sits somewhere between an HD2 and HD3 system

Are HDX cards this weak? How can you then call HD3 to HDX to an upgrade at all?

[Duardo]

Actually, that was an error on my part...I was thinking of the old HD core cards, not Accel cards. They say the HDX card is about five times as powerful as an Accel card, so that would make an HDX card about what, 40% more powerful than an three Accel cards? As I understand it there's not a hard number that compares them directly as there are some things that the new cards are much more effcient at.

Either way, though, as you get more audio tracks, more aux tracks, more delay compensation, and more processing depth...and since the new systems let you take advantage of more of your computer's processing power than the the Accel systems did...and since the new system is less expensive, I'd say it's definitely an upgrade (even if it's not a necessity).

[John_Toolbox]

Originally Posted by Duardo

The market for computers is a little broader than the market for HD/HDX systems. And in any case, the prices for Apple computers haven't stayed so consistent...G4 computers started around $1299. G5 machines started around $1499, and now Mac Pros start around $2499. Whereas the price for the new HDX systems has come down a bit.

but I was talking specifically about the price of the entry-level machines, which have gotten more expensive.

I think your price comparison for macs is just confusing people. If we are talking strictly about macs, whether they have slots or not, the price of entry is much cheaper now that you can buy a mac mini. If you're talking about entry level towers with slots available, the only time G4 tower's were that cheap was when the G5's came on to the market. There was about a year or so after the G5's were introduced where you could still buy a G4 tower, since there was still a market for the G4s because the G5 couldn't boot in OS9, and did not support several older PCI cards. But before the G5, G4's were much more expensive.

The problem with making any comparison like this is that there are simply too many changes in the technology and needs of mac users from now back to the G3 days to be able to say "This was cheaper back then."

"It wasn't the same back then" is more like it.

[gives]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Max,

Thanks for letting us try out PT10HD next week .... Sampling this version will likely calm the hyped responses from users in this thread.

As a user who made an "ill timed" used HD2 pcie purchase in may of this year, I still see the value of my HD2 192i/o system. It will run TDM, it will run RTAS, and it will soon run AAX... It will be the only "intermediate/crossover" hardware/software combination that supports all plugin formats until PT11.

I can have this for $599?

Yes, a bit pricey for an upgrade, but reasonable. But this is the last stop, the last chance to have all the bells and whistles on an HD system before spending $7,000+ on new hardware (which like many is this thread want to do but, like me, cannot at this time). I will be able to use my system while planning for a hardware upgrade next year. Okay, it will cost me a little bit more later, I get that, but I can see the value of having the software now.

Perhaps you could sway Avid to keep the hardware exchange longer? Or, at least offer some some incentives for the PCI-E users who want to step up to an HDX system a soon as possible but can not right now.

There are a lot of HD users out here that would be elated if they received some sort of "loyalty discount" based on how long they have had an HD system fully qualified with Avid.

Looking forward to the trial,

-SteveB.

Word on the Trial? Just don't see it here:) G

[Duardo]

I think your price comparison for macs is just confusing people. If we are talking strictly about macs, whether they have slots or not, the price of entry is much cheaper now that you can buy a mac mini. If you're talking about entry level towers with slots available, the only time G4 tower's were that cheap was when the G5's came on to the market. There was about a year or so after the G5's were introduced where you could still buy a G4 tower, since there was still a market for the G4s because the G5 couldn't boot in OS9, and did not support several older PCI cards. But before the G5, G4's were much more expensive.

Sorry, I didn't mean to cause confusion, and in any case my point was mainly that the computer analogy is not necessarily valid. Although I do recall paying about $1800 for a G4 in late 2000...not quite as cheap as they eventually got, but still not as expensive as an entry-level Mac Pro.

[Matt_G]

Originally Posted by Dizzi45Z

However, I would love to see Avid make it possible for us HD users to use our HD interfaces in a Native mode. That would allow us HD users to use all of the new features with our current systems (without the use of the cards of course). This might not be ideal when tracking, but it would be awesome for mixing.

+1!!!.. See this is where I think current HD users are getting screwed because AVID want's us to upgrade our hardware. It was 100% possible to use the HD blue interfaces with ProTools LE (NATIVE 32BIT FLOAT ENGINE) in version 6.x so why can't they allow us to use our HD blue interfaces with the HD Native engine in PT's 9 & PT's 10?

Answer - it would make the HD|Native & HDX cards less attractive for us to upgrade.

Otherwise why would AVID not include this functionality?? When I purchased PT's 9 HD I was hoping that I could use my 192 digital I/O interface with the Native engine but the Core Audio driver is disabled in this mode for some silly reason. There is absolutely no technical reasons whatsoever why they can't let us use our HD interfaces under the Native engine. They've done it before, I used it in this way and it functioned flawlessly in PT's LE 6.x. If they re-enabled this ability for PT's 10 HD it would make the $599 upgrade price a no brainer because then you would get your Digi interface I/O, the 16K ADC, the 32/64 float engine, RTAS & AAX Native plugs & the full benefit of the new software features. Also having the ability to switch back to the old TDM engine for when you need certain TDM plug-ins would make it forward & backwards compatibile & the transition a lot more forgiving. This would make PT 10 HD software a much more attractive upgrade for HD users.

!!DON'T LIMIT OUR HARDWARE WITH YOUR SOFTWARE PLEASE!! We should really partition this overlooked functionality imo.

[dimf]

I read this article today about Apple questioning the future of Mac Pro
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...f_mac_pro.html

Which means there will be no more Mac’s with PCIe slots, then what with the new HDx PCIe?
So my questions are:
-Can we trust support for the costly new HDx cards?
-Is there any good reason now to upgrade at all? Perhaps next year there is an even newer hardware upgrade again?
-Where is the future with Avid? Thunderbolt?
-Is there any form of reassurance from Avid that the HDx is a good investment for a few years?
-And last, but not least why can’t we TDM user get a core audio driver that works with protools beyond 10? Avid makes it possible for other manufacturers to use their gear but not their own? (I run my HD2 192i/o 32bit float perfectly under Cubase)

Matt G I totally agree “!!DON'T LIMIT OUR HARDWARE WITH YOUR SOFTWARE PLEASE!!”
+1